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  #1  
Old 19th February 2008, 03:00 AM
Wayne
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Disappointed

I subscribe to a couple of local groups here and yesterday someone I've known for many years who has always seemed level-headed and makes a good living out of supporting windows asked a question about Linux. He wanted something that would work well, was easy to install and maintain on a laptop. I pointed him to a few distros, but all I've gotten in return so far is two replies bad-mouthing Linux, interspersed with swearing about it not being able to support 'standard' hardware and it not going to take off if it can't. The person does not use windows himself.

I expected better. Now I regret answering his post

Wayne
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  #2  
Old 19th February 2008, 03:06 AM
Demz
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just dont bother to have anything to do wityh this person again .. i would say to this guy, ' your on your own, here's a website for you i believe its good, http://www.google.com/ '
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  #3  
Old 19th February 2008, 03:13 AM
Betreden
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Some people are just weenies. Whether or not you agree with another, you don't need to badmouth something that you know they appreciate.

Stab him with a spork.
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  #4  
Old 19th February 2008, 03:15 AM
Wayne
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My reply in that thread:

Quote:
If this is the thanks I get for trying to help someone then next time someone asks a Linux question I'll just mind my own business.

There is a misconception amongst Mac/windows users that Linux is out to take over. This is totally false. We see it as a free (as in speech) alternative and like all freedoms it needs a bit of commitment, patience, etc. I get tired of hearing "Linux isn't ready for the masses" It's really the other way around, the plebs are not ready for Linux
Wayne
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  #5  
Old 19th February 2008, 03:17 AM
Dan Offline
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That should stir the pot a bit!
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  #6  
Old 19th February 2008, 03:35 AM
scottro Offline
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Wayne, don't ever change. (For one thing, you'll save a fortune on clothes and dry cleaning.)

When I hear from friends wanting to try Linux, I always warn them that they should expect to run into frustrations. It's still more for people for whom the computer is an end in itself. On the other hand, with really vanilla hardware, if you do nothing but web surf, email and documents, it's probably there, more or less.

The science fiction and fantasy writer, Piers Anthony, began writing about his attempts to switch to Linux, mostly for philosophical anti MS reasons, through three books. He finally succeeded, using SUsE, I think. However, it can certainly be frustrating, especially on laptops.

Oddly enough, I ran across something, written shortly after Ubuntu came out, where the poster said he felt Fedora was too much GUI oriented while Ubuntu made him get more into the command line. I'd say that's reversed now.

Anyway, back to Wayne's thing, it's more like the old joke--Unix is user friendly, it's just very choosy about its friends.

As we all know, it can frustrate even the experienced. As for the person's lack of gratitude, just remember one of the early self help books by Marcus Aurelius, where he said that doing good is a reward in itself, whether you are thanked or not.
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  #7  
Old 19th February 2008, 03:46 AM
Dies Offline
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Question

Having just set up a dual boot on a Sony laptop for a friend, this is really funny to me.

Sure, there are so many different hardware combinations that everyone's experience will differ.

But I found that installing Windows, then updating, then rebooting, then updating some more, reboot again, surf the web for drivers, applications, etc. wasn't nearly as friendly/easy as pooping in the Ubuntu disk ( it's not for me and Fedora doesn't have a smooth upgrade path yet ), having it automatically detect everything and "just work", Synaptic is sooo much better then going from site to site or popping in CD after CD.

Funny thing is even after getting both set up properly, everything still works better in Ubuntu....

So yeah, people like that are funny to me.
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  #8  
Old 19th February 2008, 03:48 AM
JN4OldSchool Offline
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The problem is that Linux is now being driven into a very bad place. A place that is run by the MS philosophy of the end user not understanding the process. I'm sorry, I just refuse to jump on this train. Linux is simply not for people who dont know how to partition a hard drive or who dont have a clue what makes the OS work. Can Linux be made to fit this mold? Sure, eventually. But then what do you have? A one size fits all Windows wannabe with all the same problems as the Redmond crap.

It will go where it is driven, I cant stop it. No one can. Maybe this isnt all bad either. But I just cant go along with it.
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  #9  
Old 20th February 2008, 01:52 AM
wolfen69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JN4OldSchool
Linux is simply not for people who dont know how to partition a hard drive or who dont have a clue what makes the OS work.
there's just one problem with your theory. most people cant partition a hard drive or have a clue what makes an OS work, no matter if it's windows, mac, or linux. the only reason my customers use a pc at all is because it was pre-installed for them. so you're kind of comparing apples to oranges.

if you ask me, it's windows that's not ready for the desktop. the average consumer isnt given a choice though.
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  #10  
Old 20th February 2008, 02:09 AM
JN4OldSchool Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfen69
there's just one problem with your theory. most people cant partition a hard drive or have a clue what makes an OS work, no matter if it's windows, mac, or linux. the only reason my customers use a pc at all is because it was pre-installed for them. so you're kind of comparing apples to oranges.

if you ask me, it's windows that's not ready for the desktop. the average consumer isnt given a choice though.
I'm going to have to edit that famous quote of mine before it gets me into any more trouble.

I will still argue this point of view though because at least Windows is supported and you can fins someone to fix it for you. If you offer Linux support to customers then I congratulate you, but unfortunately this hasnt reached to point of being common enough to give the average user any comfort. Maybe someday. I realize I have an extreme view of Linux and the future of this OS. Things never work out like anyone thinks.
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  #11  
Old 20th February 2008, 02:53 AM
wolfen69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JN4OldSchool
I'm going to have to edit that famous quote of mine before it gets me into any more trouble.

If you offer Linux support to customers then I congratulate you, but unfortunately this hasnt reached to point of being common enough to give the average user any comfort.
actually i do offer linux support. just like i offer windows support. i fix pc's for a living so....

i feel i should know both linux and windows. (if i want to feed myself)

edit: btw, i converted one of my customers after a 1 min speech about linux. he said: "will it run on my computer?" that's all i needed to hear. let's pop in the live cd and find out. 15 min later we had another linux user.

Last edited by wolfen69; 20th February 2008 at 03:04 AM.
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  #12  
Old 19th February 2008, 04:06 AM
Betreden
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Quote:
Linux is simply not for people who dont know how to partition a hard drive or who dont have a clue what makes the OS work.
I don't have a clue what makes an OS "work". I've used partition software but I've messed up the drive with it more times than not.

What's required is a willingness to change and learn. You don't have to understand anything. You just have to be willing to research and use some gray matter.

People that think that linux is in a race with any other OS is what's driving linux to distraction. If I wanted it to be like Windows, I'd still be using Windows.
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  #13  
Old 19th February 2008, 04:33 AM
Dan Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betreden
... If I wanted it to be like Windows, I'd still be using Windows.
Bingo! Nailed in one!
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  #14  
Old 19th February 2008, 12:33 PM
JN4OldSchool Offline
"Sean The Terrible" -- The forum(er) Vista® rep
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betreden
I don't have a clue what makes an OS "work". I've used partition software but I've messed up the drive with it more times than not.

What's required is a willingness to change and learn. You don't have to understand anything. You just have to be willing to research and use some gray matter.

People that think that linux is in a race with any other OS is what's driving linux to distraction. If I wanted it to be like Windows, I'd still be using Windows.
Beautiful. I didnt read any further than this post yet, but had to say I agree completely. I guess I was kind of out of line with what you quoted me on. I did not mean to say you needed to be a rocket scientist to learn and use Linux. Only the willingness to understand this OS for what it is. Thank you.
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  #15  
Old 19th February 2008, 04:37 AM
Wayne
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I got half an apology (Don't take my frustration with Linux personally) plus some extra rants about Linux not taking over the world so I replied:
Quote:
Put it this way, you got exactly what you paid for. If I bought windows or a Mac and had to put up with the bugs (reported in this forum) I'd be angrier than you are with Linux.
Wayne
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