Welcome to your Gnightmare III

[Dan]

Okey dokey!

This is being posted from F15 RC Alpha, and it seems fitting that describing it as such sounds a bit like a report being posted from a moon base on the dark side of anything decent and wholesome.

Be that as it may, I've been waiting for this. I'm a sucker for a new toy, and I wanted to not only get a feel for the progress of F15, but I also wanted a chance to actually go one-on-one with Gnome 3 before I solidified any opinion about it. I will admit that I wasn't expecting much from it. I'd seen some of the early blogs about it, and came away from there none too impressed. But first impressions taken from developer blogs are notoriously doomed to meet the eventuality of reality at a distinct disadvantage. Developers frequently come to their senses and jettison the silly stuff before the harsh light of day dawns over their worst mistakes. Kinda like the rest of us and our own brilliantly non thought out ideas. (By way of example, this particular posting comes to mind.)

Truth be told, I nurtured hope in my heart of hearts that this would be the case with Gnome 3. Even after said developers bashed their way through the sensibilities and funcionality of the fedora art group with a hand equally as subtle as that applied by any randomly chosen middle eastern president-for-life.

Sadly, after using Gnome 3 for a while this evening, and even after forgiving the typical fedora Alpha RC status, ie. having to crowbar-kill and reboot it five or six times to reach a workable desktop, I now find myself with a fully formed and not-so-warm and fuzzy opinion about Gnome 3.

I'll wait a bit longer before carving it in stone, but the first few things which came to mind as I was wandering my way through a shockingly counter-intuitive interface were:

• What the 'ell were these guys thinking?!
  
• ... Or drinking?!
  
• ... Or smoking?
  
• Is this what happens when Linux developers let Windows7/MAC OSX Envy get the better of them?
  
• I wonder how long it's going to take to get used to using KDE light?

I guess when I started writing this, I intended to go out asking the developers, "Really, what the hell were you thinking?!" but realistically, I'm not sure I want nor care about that answer. I am quite sure that they not only don't want, but don't give two hoots in a hot place about my opinions on the matter. After all, I'm just one of those stupid unwashed users who will, "just damn well have to get used to it."

Or ... do I?


<....>

[tox]

Dan

i think what Gnome3 is basically is a closser bonding with KDE, or vice versa. but once you get used to Gnome3 you will begin to like it, i will say, im glad you did the install of Gnome3 , i think in the end really you must install it an use it before you finally decide its fate whether you'll keep it or not. but IMO its like Gnome2.0 it started off pretty Crappy and got better over time, im assuming the same will happen with Gnome3.

bare in mind, you cannot use compiz in Gnome3

[Wayne]

Get used to it or move to one of the other DEs, which I think a lot of users will do. Pretty soon it will only be the Gnome devs and a handful of the Gnome faithful who'll be using that abomination

Sorry, but at this stage of the game, I AM NOT going to relearn the way I use my computer, thank you very much!

[pythagorean]

I started using it when ubuntu 10.04 first came out and it seemed very new. I didn't like how you have to go up to the corner to get to the menus and then click through a couple of panes and on and on. And I didn't like how you have to stop using compiz to use gnome shell.

I think they were really feeling like they needed to come up with something "innovative" over at gnome so they got led down a path whereby they sold their soul. Even windows 7 allows you to use a non-aero theme that looks like XP basically. They should allow a "revert to classic gnome" mode or something. Of course, they won't because they have pushed all of the chips to the middle of the table and bet everything on "Gnome Shell." I smell a Windows Vista moment on the horizon for Linux!

[kurtdriver]

I seem to recall from a couple of months back that there would be a Gnome2 option for those who didn't want version 3. Have you looked into that?

[tox]

I seem to recall from a couple of months back that there would be a Gnome2 option for those who didn't want version 3. Have you looked into that?

i think it will depend on ones computer, if it can handle Gnome3 or not, if it cant, it will fallback to a Gnome-Classic look

[Wayne]

i think it will depend on ones computer, if it can handle Gnome3 or not, if it cant, it will fallback to a Gnome-Classic look

Until they get tired of supporting two Gnome desktops and tell people with lesser machines it's Gnome Shell, XFce or LXDE...

[tox]

Until they get tired of supporting two Gnome desktops and tell people with lesser machines it's Gnome Shell, XFce or LXDE...

true, the same is kinda happening with Ubuntu11.04 , once you start Ubuntu11.04 your greeted with Gnome-Classic untill you enable the Unity Plugin in compiz then you got Unity. as far as i know even leigh has moved over to LXDE

[vallimar]

The gnome classic is a joke, since you still cannot configure or theme anything as all those controls were ripped out, and they really have no intentions of adding them back in. It's a repeat of gdm on a bigger scale.

Gnome shell has actually gotten less options as it advanced. The only neat thing it has is the automated workspaces.. but considering that you cannot minimize windows anymore, they force you to use more workspaces instead, which means you have to waste time activating the overlay first.

Also, to correct one misconception, you can use the windows key to active the overlay, or throw the cursor into the upper-left corner instead of needing to hit the button.

I'm still not that fond of the KDE stuff as I was testing that as an alternative.. I'm actually starting to
wonder if it would be difficult to just maintain my own set of gnome2 rpm's and just exclude all the
new gnome stuff. Shouldn't be hard since gnome has long stopped updating it, and even Fedora 14
is already mostly left in the dust at this point.

---------- Post added at 09:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 AM ----------

true, the same is kinda happening with Ubuntu11.04 , once you start Ubuntu11.04 your greeted with Gnome-Classic untill you enable the Unity Plugin in compiz then you got Unity. as far as i know even leigh has moved over to LXDE

It would be nice if the Enlightenment folks would get a clue already and work on making
DR17 less rickety and crash prone. Still way too fragile and I don't think I could go back
to using E16 after all these years.

I cannot get into XFCE, I've tried a few times, but it's progressed to acting like a poor mans
Gnome replacement and just makes me want to use real Gnome. I may have to try out the
LXDE stuff now that it has matured some and may be more tolerable and less mish-mash.

[Dan]

I'm actually starting to wonder if it would be difficult to just maintain my own set of gnome2 rpm's and just exclude all the new gnome stuff.

If you should choose to do so, and word gets out, I suspect you'll need a server with an awful lot of bandwidth.

[Dan]

On a more serious note, Gnome Shell strikes me as being the training wheels for the "Cloud" experience. I recall the developer blogging he was trying to, "get the operating system out of the way of the user." Not an entirely misguided effort I suppose, but all the self-appointed saviors-of-us-all have managed to accomplish, is making it a complete pain-in-the-butt to use. I find the hoops one has to jump through in order to navigate your own local file system deliberately obfuscated.

I also find the inability to park files and folders directly on the desktop where they can be instantly accessed about the biggest backwards step in the OS/desktop environment development since Microsoft proudly introduced Windows ME®!

The inability to hide the upper menu/whatever bar is also a rather despicable oversight.



EDIT: Oh! And as far as those vertical stripes in the artwork are concerned ... <....> ... Fail!


And that brings me to my next post ...



.... see below.

[Dan]

*Sigh!*

If you've been following the mailing list for the fedora art team, the above illustration, borrowed from a 1940's vintage Texaco advertisement in Look Magazine, might make a bit more sense in this thread, but that background knowledge is not necessary to participate in the idea launched herewith. Suffice it to say that it is my considered opinion that most of the volunteer community talent serving on the fedora art team took a swift kick in the teeth from the powers that be on the advent of F15 and the planned rollout of Gnome 3.

Despite some damn good arguments, thoughts and comments from the fedora community team, it looks like it's a done deal. The debate has been relentlessly squelched by the inevitable cries of horror about team disunity, and the feeling that the wonderous Gnome devels "deserve" it. The fedora art team's community branding efforts shall thus be jettisoned in favor of the default roll-out art from the Gnome project -- leaving the fedora community workers -- so often praised for their work -- to either twist in the wind, or simply accept the inevitable, lower their eyes and kneel before the mighty wisdom wielded from above.

My reaction? Well, if you couldn't tell by now, <....> In short ... it strikes me the tail is trying to wag the dog here. Gnome fits on fedora, not the other way around.

Even shorter version? Screw this!

I am a realist, however, and there isn't a diddly-damn thing we can do about it. Community complaints and input from here won't be any more successful than it was from the art team members. They have the defaults. We cannot change that. We can, however, offer replacement alternatives!

So my challenge is this:

Let's see if we can come up with some viable options for fedora users to install in the place of the Gnome 3 default wallpaper. The more adventurous and talented can perhaps design their own full themes, but at the very least, we should be able to come up with a few ideas for alternative wallpapers.

That gauntlet being thrown down, now come ...

The rules:

• No copyright violations!
  
• No stealing from another distro.
  
• No stealing from Windows or Mac.
  
• Keep it clean. Nothing that is going to offend, peeve or embarrass others. (Within reason. Sure, the chronic whiners will snivel and simper no matter what. Just don't go out of your way to tweak them.)
  
• As always, No politics, No religion.
  
• Remember this is a family channel! Nothing which would carry anything higher than a light (PG) rating. (G) rated is preferred. Heavy (R) or (X) is forbidden.
  
• Following the project guidelines and rules regarding logos and colors is probably a good idea, but in this case ... not mandatory. This is something we're making up for ourselves, not distributing as anything remotely official.
  
• Get creative.

The mechanics:

• Screen sizes are available on the project website. Build for those. Or just your own screen if you like. Just remember your fellow members may want to share, so make it something easy to scale cleanly.
  
• Once you have your design up to snuff, create a scaled size representation of it, save it in your personal albums here on the forum, and use the IMG tag option to post it in this thread. Remember that file/graphic sizes allowed on the forum are non-negotiable. Bandwidth is an issue. Also note that examples IMG linked in from elsewhere will be summarily deleted. Whining about that, or trying to post it again will get your posting privileges restricted. Again, that is non-negotiable.
  
• Only three entries from any single member.
  
• Once we have about ten or so to choose from, we'll post a poll, and everyone can vote for their favorite.
  
• Have fun and enjoy being a contributing member of this community.
  
• Any and all ties will be settled by a vote of the staff.
  
• Make sure you only post work you are willing to share openly under a completely open license. If you post it, you've openly shared it. Period.
  
• I know that creativity is a uniquely personal thing, but I have very often seen collaborative works far out-shine individual stuff. Be prepared to help -- and be helped -- in the creative process. If you so desire, you can always post one collaborative and one individual work, and see what the community thinks of the two.
  
• If you wish to team up and collaborate, you are welcome to do so here on the forums, just build yourself a Social Group and work together there.
  
• Lastly ... keep this fun. We've already seen enough examples of ego over-run to identify it for what it is ... and summarily reject it.

The time frame:

• Meh. I'm thinking two weeks, but you can toss in your two cents worth on that.

Can do?

[bob]

Let's not ignore some nice work already posted in the Albums!
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/album....&pictureid=785
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/album....&pictureid=869

[Dan]

And the testing continues.

Sometimes, it's a good thing to get an unvarnished opinion from someone whose judgement you know and trust. Ergo, I took the opportunity to boot the War Department's machine with F15 RC Alpha early this afternoon. The results of that experiment follow.

Surprisingly, the boot was mostly successful. This is a bit weird because something stuttered during Plymouth display, and when the icon re-appeared, it was back to only a quarter full, and progressed all the way to GDM. It had been 3/4 full and getting very slow to progress when it stuttered.

Don't know how long this is going to last, but we have a good GDM with no nouveau lock-up. That's definitely unexpected on this machine. We also have a successful login.

Huh? No Gnome shell. We actually have a regular panel with menus on the top screen edge. Menus function. Dammit! The desktop itself, however, is unusable. It will not allow placing files nor folders on the desktop for quick access. She ain't gonna like that.

Everything else appears to be there. The NIC is up, and the updater is already complaining about wanting to install updates. Guess that works.

Surfing works.

Audio works. (Gawd that is some butt-ugly wallpaper!)

Okey dokey. Time for the acid test. I'm bugging out of the chair, and letting the WD take the controls ...

...

...

...

Well, that answers that. I'm back at the keyboard. It didn't take very long.

"Uhm. This is broken. I've got no right click. No left click either."

Yeah. Not on the desktop. You'll have them in folders and windows, though."

(Damn! It just got chilly in here!)

"Really. Gee, that's neat. Where's my home folder?"

"Exactly where it normally is. You just can't get to it from the desktop."

"Yeah. Ok. Is this the same thing you were trying out last night?"

"Ayup. One and the same, but I think that's the low-end graphics default, so you didn't get the full effect."

"The desktop thing works the same on yours?"

"Ayup. It's a little fancier, and the menu structure access changes a bit, but the desktop functionality remains the same."

"Ok." At which point she scooted back her chair and got up.

"This is broken. It's not useful. I don't have the time, nor the inclination to relearn how to run the operating system. I want to use it, not struggle with it. I want to be able to put things on my desktop to work with them. Now, how do I get this abomination shut down?"

After her machine was shut down, and I had the marker in my hand to label the disk, she saw what I was doing and offered the following by simply spelling it out verbally.

"A-B-O-M-B-I-N-A-T-I-O-N."

Gotta love that gal!

(Note: Yes. The second "B" was intentional.)

[soundfreely]

Hmm, after having toyed with Gnome3 and Gnome-shell, I have to say that I am looking forward to it. I like the idea of tapping the "super" key and pulling up an application list or viewing my open windows. While there may be a very mild learning curve, I can see that I will appreciate the work-flow enhancements gnome-shell brings to the table.

Perhaps I am a loon, but I suspect Gnome3 will be something people will enjoy to use more and more after the initial shock of "WTF is this?" is over with.

On another note, I've noticed that mutter doesn't leave me with any redraw issues that compiz has left me with.