MS and the EU

[Prometheus]

Heh Heh, you guys should like this.

For those of you who live in Europe, you probably already know about this, but the European Union is going to slap Microsoft with a 600 million dollar fine pretty soon. Get the whole story here: http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20040323S0001

About time somebody fined the suckers.

[mhelios]

Well I was tempted to vote for "DIE MICROSOFT DIE YOU THEIVING LITTLE PEOPLE", but I constrained. :D

All I can say is go EU!

The final coople sentences has me a little worried though :(

While the stakes are undeniably high for Microsoft, the EU has some incentive to settle the case, too. The Competition Directorate has lost some embarrassing cases in recent months on appeal, and it would not want to suffer another loss.

This is Microsoft appealing. Do they stand a chance against the appeal?? :eek:

[Prometheus]

God i hope not, but who knows. BIlly boy has a ton of backing

[PeTzZz]

Actually Microsoft makes pritty good software, but I don't like their politics. They should not push people to use m$ stuff and their software is too expensive also, but that is another topic. So 'Why not'. I think they have deserved it.

[Ug]

I don't think it matters either way if the EU sue Microsoft. It's not going to harm Microsoft at all, and it just appears that the EU are meddling.

[Lindy]

The sad part is that if the U.S. courts would have shown a little more spine the EU case would have probally not been necessary.

[Ug]

I don't really have that much of a problem with Microsoft. I just dislike their product, and disapprove of some of their buisness tactics. I'm not one to get down in the religious microsoft bashing.

[kennith]

I am just wondering, where will the money go to?

[sailor]

Hi all, whether MS is a monopoly or not is the question, isn't it?
I think there is a good case for that, considering how they "force " computer makers to use their software...the product itself is not a bad product...but I agree that it is too expensive ...and I don't like having to buy a new OS when it is really just the old one with some patches...

I suspect that people will be paid off ( a few million here a few million there) and the suit will slowly disappear without really resolving anything...

[Lindy]

Originally posted by sailorsgh
Hi all, whether MS is a monopoly or not is the question, isn't it?

I suspect that people will be paid off ( a few million here a few million there) and the suit will slowly disappear without really resolving anything...


Actually there's not much question to it. Microsoft has been judged to be a monopoly,
and found guility of using unfair business practices. It's just that unlike AT&T which was devested for it's bad behavior, all Microsoft got was a slap on the wrist.

If the EU sticks to their guns, and the sure to follow appeal is upheld. I think the money wiil be the least of their concern. Having to open up their code for interoperability is what will raise the biggest welt.

The BBC has a nice writeup on the decission.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3563697.stm

[Prometheus]

The really sick thing is that by splitting up Microsoft into 2 brances, the US courts made Bill Gates richer and the company as a whole more formidable. Just like what happened with Standard Oil in the 1800s (little histroy lesson here) Rockefeller got even richer because he owned 5 different companies instead of 1 big one. The US Gov screwed up. They should have forced MS to allow competitors into the market. Look what they did to netscape with IE. AOL bought netscape and were forced to use IE because they had to pay to use a product they owned. Its business, but MS shouldnt force people. XP isnt a bad product, just not though through and i wish they wouldnt force us to use it.

[sailor]

I agree that their business practices are rather "immoral"..but it still doesn't quite meet the definition of a monopoly...

BTW. you all seem to be online all the time...are all of you at work sending messages at break time...or like me slipping a message in between calls? (keeping an eye out for the boss)

[Prometheus]

I just got home from school. After that i pretty much am on all the time, except when im doing hw or something. Also, most of the people here are from the US and Europe, and Europe is anywhere from 5-7 hours ahead of us (so like 7-9 hours ahead of texas) So when its 3 here, its like 9-10 there, when lots of people areon. What can i say, were forum junkies.

[sailor]

I knew that:)....I meant the folks in US...everytime I post there is an answer within 10-15 minutes...now I monitor it everyday...
damn, now i'm a forum junkie!

[Prometheus]

were addicts. Welcome to the club... I wonder if they have Forum Addicts Anonymous or something like that? the AA of the internet, lol

[mhelios]

Originally posted by Prometheus
I just got home from school. After that i pretty much am on all the time, except when im doing hw or something. Also, most of the people here are from the US and Europe, and Europe is anywhere from 5-7 hours ahead of us (so like 7-9 hours ahead of texas) So when its 3 here, its like 9-10 there, when lots of people areon. What can i say, were forum junkies.
Most are. But I'm proudly Australian and about 10 hours or more ahead of the rest of you..:) Which if you think about it means I'm posting from the future in your guys perspective :eek:
It's funny, because I can in the morning see someone such as Ug log off and go to bed and then in the arvo see him wake up and come back on!
But, yes Ug is definitely a forum junkie, sheesh!

[Prometheus]

so what time is it there, like 4am on the 25th? Or is it even later than that, i could never get much past the time conversions other than to europe. Ug is the admin anyway, hes expected to be a junkie, no offense Ug.

[darkrain]

The EU are making a mess of so much in the IT industry. When I bought Windows XP I paid for the compleate package, and to me that includes all the software that comes with it. My license means I am aloowed to use the software that is packaged with the o/s.

If I want to uninstall Media Player then I can, if i want to use a different browser then I can. It is only Real-networks being stupid about things, as they want there software to be number one. The problem with real player is all the extra programs it installs. The adverts, pop-ups tracking cookies etc. Thats why I dont use it, ok Media player 9 has some of the parts in it but you can disable them. It just the same as XMMS in Linux, you could say that this is a unfair practice.

Lots of people slate and flame Microsoft but we do have them to thank for getting the pc into so many homes. Most people cannot use Linux or feel affraid of it, but once they have got to grips with it they then move to finding out about Linux. They try a run from CD distro get to like it, movin on to a dual boot system.

I have to work with both systems, I program C, C++, Java etc on both platforms even though I am still learning my way round Linux. One of the biggest things that Windows has over Linux is the the fact that Jave runs so much faster on it than Linux, Solaris.

My 2 cents worth. In the end it is horses for courses.

[Prometheus]

I personally think we can thank Steve Jobs and Apple for getting computers mainstream, and credit Microsoft for stealing an idea and running with it. See "Lets talk about SCO" in general discussion for a full symopsis of the history of apple and Microsoft. MS is ok, and dont really produce horrible software, i just hate the politics they involve and the way they go about it. I just wish they wouldnt attempt to squash all their competitors (apple for isntance). Bill Gates definately had a master plan (maybe evil in some opinions) but hey, he got where he wanted to go

[Ug]

Yes, I'm a junkie. ;)

But most of the time i'm on here, I'm not actually posting believe it or not. Just reading through stuff, editing out a few bits and moving things.

There will come a day, when I will be out spammed. (In fact I'm not going to be very active for a few days, as i've got too much work on at the moment)

[mhelios]

Originally posted by Prometheus
so what time is it there, like 4am on the 25th? Or is it even later than that, i could never get much past the time conversions other than to europe. Ug is the admin anyway, hes expected to be a junkie, no offense Ug.
Well, at the time of writing it was 8AM, 25th. It's 1:21PM now. :)

darkrain: Nice comments, I agree with you on those points. We still can't live without MS in the current business world, so till that changes, we have to live and deal with their products in real life.

[Ug]

What we should be showing is that at the moment an alternative does exist to Microsoft...rather than waiting on the sidelines baying for blood.

[Prometheus]

What, you dont want a good old fashioned gladatorial battle between MS and Linux? I really dont care if it turns bloody or not, i just wish microsoft wouldnt force its product. Give people options. Human nature likes options, so lets give people some.

[Avatraxiom]

Originally posted by Prometheus
The really sick thing is that by splitting up Microsoft into 2 brances

Um, Microsoft wasn't split up. It's still one company.

[Prometheus]

They got spit into the hardware and software divisions... same company, but two different corporations... might be considered a conglomerate now i think

[Avatraxiom]

Um, I think it didn't happen --

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2001-06-29-microsoft-ruling-usat.htm
http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2001/09/03/daily35.html

[Jman]

Microsoft is definately still one company. I believe the US Department of Justice contemplated splitting Microsoft but never did. They settled. (By the way, only the Office and Windows divisions of Microsoft make any real money.) The final judgement is here (http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f4400/4469.htm) . There are also several books worth of legal documents indexed here (http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/ms_index.htm). Basically Microsoft was told to allow vendors to remove Windows components.

The EU, however, fined Microsoft about $600 million US (http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-bz.microsoft23mar23,0,5650032.story?coll=bal-business-headlines) and is expected to order Microsoft to let software from others integrate with Windows sold in the EU.

I'm for this move, as I believe a monopoly stifles innovation.

I wonder where the fine money will go.

[Ug]

Originally posted by Jman
Microsoft is definately still one company. I believe the US Department of Justice contemplated splitting Microsoft but never did. They settled. (By the way, only the Office and Windows divisions of Microsoft make any real money.) The final judgement is here (http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f4400/4469.htm) . There are also several books worth of legal documents indexed here (http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/ms_index.htm). Basically Microsoft was told to allow vendors to remove Windows components. Yea, thats right I remember that.

The EU will probably just chuck it into their fund. Their supposed to be running up a deficit, so any little helps I suppose.

I just wish they'd done something more useful than a fine and some flimsy requirement. I'm not entirely sure what though...