Fedora Core 5 Test 1 Review

[desertwind]

Fedora Core 5 Test 1 Review

Note Before:
1. This is a desktop user review. No indepth features/bugs are examined.
2. Has worked on this distro for only a few hours. So this not a complete one.

System Config
AMD Athlon XP 2200+ Processor
ASUS A7NVM266 Motherboard
160 GB Seagate Baraccuda 7200 RPM HDD
80 GB Seagate Baraccuda 7200 RPM HDD
nVidia Geforce2 MX 32 MB integrated Video Card
512x2 DDR333 MHz RAM

Installation

So, I downloaded the 6 iso's (5 Installation iso and one network boot iso). I really didn't want to waste 5 cd's for a test distribution. So i burnt the boot.iso into my RW, and decided to go for a hard disc install.

After restart, i booted with the boot cd, selected the installation type, entered the path to iso's, and waited. Alas! I got a valuable piece of information. Anaconda is under some serious changes. Hard disc installation is not supported for the time being.

Booted back into FC4, burnt all 5 cds, ready for a new start. Selected text install now.

SATA is supported natively now. After the usual Media Check and all, The installation screen appeared, and it appeared nasty. All the text seems to be garbled.

Reboot, Graphical install now.

The graphical installer pops up. On pressing next, RedHat advised me not to install this. I clicked "Install Anyway".

After the Language and Keyboard selection, it took directly into the partition screen. No searching for previous installations, No install/upgrade options, and no installation type (workstation/server/personal/custom) selection screens. And the partition screen looks a bit strange for me. It provided four options before me.

1. Remove all partitions
2. Remove all linux partitions
3. Use free space in disk
4. Custom partitioning

I selected custom, for I don't want to disturb my current distro. Next partitioning screen was pretty familiar.

After that te usual Network setup, Time Zone Selection and root password. Firewall/SELinux configuration screens seems to be dissappeared. Now i'm into the package selection screen.

I was dissappointed! This was one of the most worst package selections i've ever seen. This seems to be very basic. It provided me with some groups of packages, which can be selected. No individual package selection and customization at all. The groups are

admin-tools
authoring-and-publishing
base-x*
development-tools
dns-server
eclipse
engineering-and-scientific
ftp-server
games*
gnome-desktop*
gnome-software-development
graphical-internet*
graphics*
java-development
language-support
legacy-network-services
legacy-software-development
mail-server
mysql
network-server
news-server
office*
printing*
server-cfg
smb-server
sound-and-video*
sql-server
system-tools
text-internet*
web-server
x-software-development

of which the starred one's are selected by default. I decided to go with the default selection, additionaly selecting system-tools after the failure of a full installation attempt. (I'll be trying a full installation once again to figure out the error). Clicking next took me to a "Checking for dependancies" dialog, which really checks in detail ! It took about 5 minutes. Installation took about 25 minutes.

Rebooted in anxiety....

Booting

GRUB greeted me with the same old Blue GRUB screen. After starting the usual services The first boot configuration screen appears. Early login is not implemented yet, and the rhgb (RedHat Graphical Boot) seems to be the same old one. The Firewall and SELinux configuration is now a part of firstboot. My sound card is detected, but twice. It shows the same card twice. I selected the default one, as it worked. So the old, blue, login screen again.

Desktop

The first thing I noticed was the same old dark wallpaper. I suggest them to use some light shades for a default wallpaper. Some noticable changes striked me on a first look on the desktop.

1. The new f logo instead of the Hat.
2. No RHN-Applet (Thank GOD! at last...)
3. A new cool 3d animation instead of the old Hour Glass for mouse pointer.

I tried to caoture a screenshot by pressing the PrintScreen key, but nothing happened. I checked with the configuration, but pressing the PrintScreen doesn't seems to work. Atlast i decided to change the Hotkey for Screenshot to F12, which worked.

So Here's the Desktop.

http://www.iup.in/show.php/431_ScreenshotDesktop.png

Applications

FC5 test 1 use the latest versions of several softwares like

Kernel 2.6.14
GNOME 2.12.1
Firefox Deer Park
OOo 2.0


Have a Look.

http://www.iup.in/show.php/432_ScreenshotAboutGNOME.png
http://www.iup.in/show.php/433_ScreenshotDeerPark.png
http://www.iup.in/show.php/435_ScreenshotOOoSplash.png
http://www.iup.in/show.php/434_ScreenshotOOoWriter.png

One of the most important feature of new GNOME 2.12 is that it hold the clipboard contents even if the application is closed.

Nautilus

Nautilus still uses the spatial view (which is a real trouble and mess for me) as default. The first thing i've done is to change it to the browser view. The path can't be entered manually now. (There must be some tweak for this). It now show "Places" instead of "Information" by default in the Side Panel.

Have a look.

http://www.iup.in/show.php/436_ScreenshotNautilus.png

Multimedia

Arghh!! Still no complete multimedia support. mp3/mpeg/wmv/avi etc are not supported natively. Even if a little trick will do for that, supporting them by default will draw more n00b users to gnu/linux. Hope patend issues will be resolved soon (Or the whole world uses Ogg format).

Totem crashed everytime i open it. So no use of that. Helix player is not able to play a single format, not even rm, so no use of that too. Rhythmbox supports only ogg for the time being. But i notice two changes in Rhythmbox.

1. The Error messages for detecting mp3 has been changed. Early it was something like "Unsupported format", but it shows "The file is not an audio stream".

2. Clicking the close (x) button minimises to the panel. For quitting the application, either I've to go through Music>Quit or by right clicking the panel icon, then quit.

gthumb now opens the Image view directly instead of the browser view, when opening an image.

Firefox

One noticable thing about Fx Deer Park is that it crashed everytime i cliked a Menu Entry. And tooks too much time to load.

File Roller

The archive manager goes back to old mode. Now "Extract Here" will extract all files into the current directory, instead of creating a new archivename.zip_Files directory. But still nor rar archive support.

System Monitor

System Monitor is now divided into three tabs against the old two. Devices is now a new tab along with Process and Resources.

Personal File Sharing & Remote Desktop

Some new additions to the Preferences are "Personal File Sharing" which has an option to share all public files over the network, with/without password protection and "Remote Desktop" which allows user to connect from/to this desktop remotely.

Add/Remove Package

Selecting this show me a message that "/media/cdrecorder seems not be a valid installation source". So i inserted the first installation disc into the drive, mounted it and tried again. But it still shows the same message.

PUP - The Package UPdater

This one of the most featured change in FC5. PUP, the Package UPdater is the replacement for the troublesome old RHN Updater. This is absed on yum and the interface seems to be very basic, and cleans. No options other than simple "select and update" is available. The first time I started it, it simply quit without any warning. But when I started it after connecting to the internet, I just worked fine. Hope that more options will be added to this one.

http://www.iup.in/show.php/438_ScreenshotPUPget.png
http://www.iup.in/show.php/437_ScreenshotPUP.png

Conclusion

Although it seems a lot similar to its ancestor, FC4, there are signs of lot of changes. Many core applications like anaconda, package updater etc, are under serious change. Several applications are to be included and several to be excluded.

Anyway, End Users are not advised to install this test release on their machines, as there is a possibliity for a lot of bugs and security flaws. Wait for the final release till February, and I'm sure you'll get a rocking solid new Fedora!

[codergeek42]

Nice. I think things like Pup and the reworked artistry are definitely steps in the right direction.

I'm not feeling so adventurous at the moment due to school and whatnot, but I'll probably give FC5test2 a good try and see what awesome new things are happening in the Fedora Development world.

Thanks, desertwind.

[teethlikelions]

nice review.

i think i'll wait till february

[Firewing1]

indeed. I have to say though, Pup is a waste of time. Just include SmartPM; it has more support, more options, more details.
As for Nautilus, try File > Open location or type "/" and maybe you get a window. I know that works in FC4 for most "Open" dialogs...
Firewing1

[teethlikelions]

how definite is the february stable fc5 release?

[Finalzone]

indeed. I have to say though, Pup is a waste of time. Just include SmartPM; it has more support, more options, more details.
As for Nautilus, try File > Open location or type "/" and maybe you get a window. I know that works in FC4 for most "Open" dialogs...
Firewing1

Pup is a frontend of "yum update". It was not designed to use all yum option.
Did you know it is possible to create a plugins for yum using python? For example,
you can make a downgrade command which basically use "rpm --oldpackage -Uvh package".

[Jman]

Note that both the installer and pup are basically new software, both (re)written to use yum to update, and still will have more features and improvements.

how definite is the february stable fc5 release?
Not at all, this could slip at any time. The schedule is only a guide.

Usually the release is fairly close to the target though.

[mbokil]

"Nautilus still uses the spatial view (which is a real trouble and mess for me) as default. The first thing i've done is to change it to the browser view."

I do that change also. I wonder how many people switch it back. If more people swith it back then use it in spatial mode doesn't it make sense that they change this default action?

I think that is one funny issue with Gnome still. I don't care about a perfect mapping of spatial relationships in my folders I just want a fast file browser with the usual features of bookmarks, cut, copy, paste, move, etc.

[Firewing1]

Pup is a frontend of "yum update". It was not designed to use all yum option.
Did you know it is possible to create a plugins for yum using python? For example,
you can make a downgrade command which basically use "rpm --oldpackage -Uvh package".
No offence to devs, it's cool 'n all, but i still say SmartPM is a better choice. It's next generation; it has mirror support, it can bridge apt, yum, and pretty much any other PM out there, it shows a desc. if what's installing, a "Change Review", "Fix all problems" to fix broken / duplicate packages, reinstall packages on right click, priorites, it's amazing.
It, too uses PyGTK (Python + GTK) for interface and the yum plug in.
Firewing

[ieuuk]

it's looking good... i cant get fc5 running on my pc at the moment but i'll probably update my core 3 server to core 5 in feb and have a big jump.

cheers all

[Chen]

I support firewing1. SmartPM is the best choice.

[Finalzone]

Then someone should bring Smartpm in Fedora Extras repository. Any taker?

[codergeek42]

Then someone should bring Smartpm in Fedora Extras repository. Any taker?It's been discussed on the mailing lists, but no one seems to want to maintain it in Extras: msg00924.html (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2005-November/msg00924.html), msg00783.html (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2005-June/msg00783.html)

[Finalzone]

It's been discussed on the mailing lists, but no one seems to want to maintain it in Extras: msg00924.html (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2005-November/msg00924.html), msg00783.html (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2005-June/msg00783.html)

You just provided a page that explain why downgrade is not an option (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2005-November/msg01207.html):

Are you here to argue semantics or are you here to have a constructive
conversation?
The issue is about "known" vulnerabilities and "expected" problems
based on how scriplets are designed to work.

Vulnerabilities get fixed with upgrades as they are discovered and
developers respond. Its pretty clear to anyone willing to be rational,
that software updates are inspired to deal with "known"
vulnerabilities. Tools that takes the thought out of downgrading into
a known insecurity from a more security state does those users a
disservice. This of course is not the strongest argument that can be
made against downgrading, since notification about security issues
could be incorporated either from the changelog difference or from
seperate notification text to inform the users of the risk.

The stronger argument against this behavior is about how rpm packages
are actually designed and tested. How much testing does anyone do with
regard to downgrades? Is there any packager out there that creates
upgrades to fix issues regarding downgrading?
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that the number of maintainers who
do spend any time on making sure downgrades work smoothly is
vanishingly small. We know this situation gets absolutely no testing,
and gets absolutely no maintenance and as a result tools should not be
automating the process when the results are ill-defined.

Therefore, downgrading a package provides a security risk due to known vulnerability from old packages.

[Firewing1]

It's been discussed on the mailing lists, but no one seems to want to maintain it in Extras: msg00924.html (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2005-November/msg00924.html), msg00783.html (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2005-June/msg00783.html)
I would. I'm slightly busy right now, but I've made a RPM for the SmartPM base and then i can just re-package the ATRPMS rpms. When i'm not so busy i'll sign up.
Firewing1

[Dragoran]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=175438

[xanax]

I definitively vote for "smartpm" instead of "Pup".
Smartpm is the tool FC5 should include.

[Jesus-Franco]

Smart seems a hell of alot better. But I'm sure the devs haven't thought about it for a reason. Id just like to know what that reason is... :rolleyes:

[Finalzone]

I definitively vote for "smartpm" instead of "Pup".
Smartpm is the tool FC5 should include.

Pup is the frontend for yum update. Smartpm is not included because it does not support multilib i.e. mixing 32/64 bit libraries. However, someone is currently trying to bring it in Fedora Extras.

Remember that yum is very extensible because plugins can be created so anyone can participate for enhancing yum. Want to speed up yum? create a plugins for it. This is much like creating an extension for Firefox.

[Zyqwux]

Java in Firefox from the beginning, is that breaking against Fedora and GNU/FSF or whatever principles? If it doesn't INSTALL IT FROM THE BEGINNING!

[sylvestre]

I would. I'm slightly busy right now, but I've made a RPM for the SmartPM base and then i can just re-package the ATRPMS rpms. When i'm not so busy i'll sign up.
Firewing1

Good idea !
I really like this program. I also really liked synaptics (but, apparently, apt-rpm will no longer be maintained).
My opinion is that GUI package managers are really useful to do advanced package management, whereas command-line package managers like yum or apt are sufficient (and sometime more useful) to do basic tasks (like upgrading etc...). In that respect, I will not be interested a lot by PUP. I tried yumex, but didn't like its ergonomy.

[Ergo12]

Having used fedora 2 tettnang a long time ago, I recently installed FC5T1. As you can see in this post http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=89622 I didn't like it at all.

I'm surprised no-one has picked up the duplicate rpm issue. Yum/PUP or whatever need to sove this problem urgently.

[RahulSundaram]

Having used fedora 2 tettnang a long time ago, I recently installed FC5T1. As you can see in this post http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=89622 I didn't like it at all.

I'm surprised no-one has picked up the duplicate rpm issue. Yum/PUP or whatever need to sove this problem urgently.

Produce your list of what you claim to be duplicate RPMs to the fedora-test list and remember this is a TEST release

[Zigzagcom]

Maybe Ergo12 is referring to (and being confused by) the differences in architecture of some rpm's, i.e. i386, i586, i686.
And once again, FC5 test 1 is not a final release. It is a means to the end, FC5 final.

[Ergo12]

I seem to have problems having attaching the list to this post. The attachment exists in my profile 1. The text that you have entered is too long (18484 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long.

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gstreamer-0.8.11-2.1
gstreamer-plugins-0.8.11-1
gstreamer-plugins-0.8.11-1.1
gthumb-2.7.1-1
gthumb-2.7.1-1.1
gtk+-1.2.10-49.1
gtk2-2.8.7-1
gtk2-2.8.9-1.1
gtk2-engines-2.7.1-1
gtk-engines-0.12-7.1
gtkhtml2-2.6.3-1.1
gtkhtml3-3.9.3-1
gtksourceview-1.5.2-1
gtkspell-2.0.11-1.1
gtkspell-2.0.7-3
guile-1.6.7-4
guile-1.6.7-4.1
gzip-1.3.5-6
gzip-1.3.5-6.1
hal-0.5.5.1-2.1
hal-cups-utils-0.5.4-2.1
hdparm-6.3-2
HelixPlayer-1.0.6-1
HelixPlayer-1.0.6-1.1
hesiod-3.0.2-31.1
hicolor-icon-theme-0.8-2
hicolor-icon-theme-0.8-3.1
hotplug-2004_09_23-10.1
hpijs-0.9.7-4
hplip-0.9.6-6
hplip-0.9.7-4
hsqldb-1.80.1-1jpp_4fc.1.1
htdig-3.2.0b6-6
htmlview-3.0.0-13.1
httpd-2.2.0-3.1
hwbrowser-0.24-1.1
hwdata-0.173-1
ImageMagick-6.2.5.4-1.1
imlib-1.9.13-26.1
info-4.8-7
info-4.8-7.1
initscripts-8.20-1
intltool-0.34.1-1.1
iproute-2.6.14-11
ipsec-tools-0.6.3-1.1
iptables-1.3.2-1
iptables-1.3.4-2.1
iptstate-1.4-1.1.1
iputils-20020927-30
iputils-20020927-32
irda-utils-0.9.16-7
irda-utils-0.9.16-7.1
isdn4k-utils-3.2-36
isdn4k-utils-3.2-38
iso-codes-0.47-1.1
java-1.4.2-gcj-compat-1.4.2.0-40jpp_55rh
java-1.4.2-gcj-compat-1.4.2.0-40jpp_57rh
jessie-1.0.0-11
joystick-1.2.15-20.1
jpackage-utils-1.6.3-1jpp_3rh
jwhois-3.2.3-3
jwhois-3.2.3-3.1
kbd-1.12-12.1
kernel-2.6.14-1.1696_FC5
kernel-2.6.14-1.1783_FC5
krb5-auth-dialog-0.5-2.1
krb5-devel-1.4.3-1.1
krb5-libs-1.4.3-1.1
krb5-workstation-1.4.3-1.1
ksh-20050202-3
ksh-20050202-3.1
kudzu-1.2.13-1
kudzu-1.2.16-1
less-394-1.1
lftp-3.3.5-4
lha-1.14i-19.1
libacl-2.2.32-2.1.1
libao-0.8.6-1.1
libart_lgpl-2.3.17-2.1
libattr-2.4.24-2.1
libavc1394-0.5.1-2
libbonobo-2.13.0-1.1
libbonoboui-2.13.0-1.1
libcap-1.10-24
libcroco-0.6.0-6
libcroco-0.6.0-6.1
libdaemon-0.10-1.1
libdmx-1.0.0-1
libdrm-2.0-1
libdv-0.103-4
libexif-0.6.12-3.1
libfontenc-1.0.0-1
libFS-1.0.0-1
libgail-gnome-1.1.2-1.1
libgcc-4.1.0-0.10
libgcj-4.0.2-6
libgcj-4.1.0-0.10
libgcrypt-1.2.2-1.1
libglade2-2.5.1-3.1
libgnome-2.13.4-1
libgnomecanvas-2.12.0-1.2
libgnomecups-0.2.2-3.1
libgnomeprint22-2.12.1-4
libgnomeprintui22-2.12.1-1.1
libgnomeui-2.13.0-1
libgpg-error-1.1-1.1
libgsf-1.13.3-2.1
libgtop2-2.13.1-1
libICE-1.0.0-1
libicu-3.4-5
libIDL-0.8.6-2.1
libidn-0.5.20-1
libidn-0.6.0-1.1
libieee1284-0.2.9-3.1
libjpeg-6b-36.1
liblbxutil-1.0.0-1
libmng-1.0.9-3.1
libmusicbrainz-2.1.1-1.1
libogg-1.1.2-2.1
libpcap-0.9.4-2.1
libpng-1.2.8-2.1
libraw1394-1.2.0-3.fc5
librsvg2-2.13.3-3
libsane-hpaio-0.9.7-4
libselinux-1.29.2-3
libselinux-devel-1.29.2-3
libselinux-python-1.29.2-3
libsemanage-1.5.3-2
libsepol-1.11.1-1
libsetrans-0.1.11-3
libsilc-0.9.12-12.1
libSM-1.0.0-1
libsoup-2.2.7-1.1
libstdc++-4.1.0-0.10
libtermcap-2.0.8-42.1
libtheora-1.0alpha5-1.1
libtiff-3.7.4-3.1
libusb-0.1.10a-3
libuser-0.54.3-1.1
libvorbis-1.1.1-1.1
libwmf-0.2.8.4-1
libwmf-0.2.8.4-2.1
libwnck-2.13.3-1
libwpd-0.8.4-1.1
libwvstreams-4.2.1-1
libX11-1.0.0-1
libXau-1.0.0-1
libXaw-1.0.0-1
libXcomposite-0.2.2.2-1
libXcursor-1.1.5.2-1
libXdamage-1.0.2.2-1
libXdmcp-1.0.0-1
libXevie-1.0.0-1
libXext-1.0.0-1
libXfixes-3.0.1.2-1
libXfont-1.0.0-1
libXfontcache-1.0.0-1
libXft-2.1.8.2-1
libXi-1.0.0-1
libXinerama-1.0.0-1
libxkbfile-1.0.0-1
libxklavier-2.0-3.1
libxml2-2.6.22-1
libxml2-2.6.22-1.1
libxml2-python-2.6.22-1.1
libXmu-1.0.0-1
libXp-1.0.0-1
libXpm-3.5.4.2-1
libXrandr-1.1.0.2-1
libXrender-0.9.0.2-1
libXres-1.0.0-1
libXScrnSaver-1.0.0-1
libxslt-1.1.15-1
libxslt-1.1.15-1.1
libXt-1.0.0-1
libXTrap-1.0.0-1
libXtst-1.0.0-1
libXv-1.0.0-1
libXxf86dga-1.0.0-1
libXxf86misc-1.0.0-1
libXxf86vm-1.0.0-1
linuxwacom-0.6.6-8
linuxwacom-0.7.0-2
lm_sensors-2.9.1-4
lm_sensors-2.9.1-5.1
lockdev-1.0.1-9.1
logrotate-3.7.3-2.1
logwatch-7.1-4.1
lrzsz-0.12.20-21.1
lsof-4.76-1.1
lvm2-2.02.01-1.1
m4-1.4.4-1
m4-1.4.4-1.1
mailcap-2.1.19-1.1
mailx-8.1.1-44.1
make-3.80-8
make-3.80-8.1
MAKEDEV-3.20-3
man-1.6b-1
man-1.6b-2
man-pages-2.16-2
mdadm-1.11.0-4.fc4
mdadm-2.2-1.fc5.1
mesa-libGL-6.4.1-2
mesa-libGLU-6.4.1-2
metacity-2.13.5-1
mgetty-1.1.33-6.FC5
mgetty-1.1.33-7.FC5
mingetty-1.07-5.1
minicom-2.1-1.1
mkbootdisk-1.5.2-5.1
mkinitrd-5.0.15-1
mkisofs-2.01.01.0.a03-1.1
mktemp-1.5-23.1
mlocate-0.11-2.1
module-init-tools-3.2-0.pre9.1.1
mozilla-1.7.12-2
mozilla-1.7.12-3
mpage-2.5.4-5.1
mtools-3.9.10-1
mtools-3.9.10-1.1
mtr-0.69-7.1
mutt-1.4.2.1-6.1
mysql-5.0.15-3
mysql-5.0.16-4
nano-1.3.8-1
nano-1.3.8-1.1
nautilus-2.12.1-6
nautilus-2.13.3-1
nautilus-cd-burner-2.13.3-1
nautilus-sendto-0.4-6
nc-1.84-2.1
ncurses-5.4-23.1
neon-0.24.7-10.1
neon-devel-0.24.7-10.1
netdump-0.7.14-1
netdump-0.7.14-1.1

[Ergo12]

Later half of rpm list

netdump-0.7.14-1
netdump-0.7.14-1.1
netpbm-10.30-2.1
netpbm-progs-10.30-2.1
net-snmp-libs-5.2.2-4.1
net-tools-1.60-57
net-tools-1.60-57.1
NetworkManager-0.5.1-5.1
NetworkManager-glib-0.5.1-5.1
NetworkManager-gnome-0.5.1-5.1
newt-0.52.2-1.1
nfs-utils-1.0.7-19.FC5.1
nmap-3.95-1
nscd-2.3.90-18
nscd-2.3.90-22
nspr-4.6.1-1
nspr-4.6-4
nss-3.11-2
nss_db-2.2-34.1
nss_ldap-244-2.1
ntp-4.2.0.a.20050816-10
ntp-4.2.0.a.20050816-10.1
ntsysv-1.3.25-1.1
numactl-0.6.4-1.24.1
open-1.4-24.1
openh323-1.15.6-4
openjade-1.3.2-22
openldap-2.3.11-3.1
openldap-clients-2.3.11-3.1
openoffice.org-calc-2.0.1.1-2.2
openoffice.org-core-2.0.1.1-2.2
openoffice.org-draw-2.0.1.1-2.2
openoffice.org-graphicfilter-2.0.1.1-2.2
openoffice.org-impress-2.0.1.1-2.2
openoffice.org-math-2.0.1.1-2.2
openoffice.org-writer-2.0.1.1-2.2
openoffice.org-xsltfilter-2.0.1.1-2.2
opensp-1.5.1-2
openssh-4.2p1-10
openssh-askpass-4.2p1-10
openssh-clients-4.2p1-10
openssh-server-4.2p1-10
openssl-0.9.8a-5
openssl-devel-0.9.8a-5
ORBit2-2.13.2-2
pam-0.99.2.1-2
pam_ccreds-1-8.1
pam_krb5-2.2.3-1
pam_passwdqc-1.0.2-1.1
pam_smb-1.1.7-6.1
pango-1.11.1-2
parted-1.6.25-5.1
passwd-0.71-2.1
patch-2.5.4-29.1
pax-3.4-1.1
pciutils-2.2.1-1
pcmciautils-011-1
pcre-6.3-1.1
perl-5.8.7-8.1
perl-Compress-Zlib-1.41-1.1
perl-DBI-1.50-1
perl-Digest-HMAC-1.01-14.1
perl-Digest-SHA1-2.10-1.1
perl-HTML-Parser-3.48-1
perl-HTML-Tagset-3.04-2.1
perl-libwww-perl-5.805-1
perl-Net-DNS-0.55-1
perl-Net-IP-1.24-2.1
perl-String-CRC32-1.3-1
perl-URI-1.35-2.1
perl-XML-Parser-2.34-6.1
pilot-link-0.12.0-0.pre4.5.1
pinfo-0.6.8-11
pinfo-0.6.8-11.1
planner-0.13-2
planner-0.13-2.1
pm-utils-0.08-1
pnm2ppa-1.04-13.1
policycoreutils-1.29.2-6
poppler-0.4.2-1
popt-1.10.2-11
portmap-4.0-65
portmap-4.0-65.1
postgresql-libs-8.1.1-3
ppp-2.4.3-6.1
prelink-0.3.6-2
procmail-3.22-16.1
procps-3.2.6-3
psacct-6.3.2-37
psacct-6.3.2-37.1
psmisc-21.8-1.1
psutils-1.17-25.1
pup-0.1.9-1
pwlib-1.8.7-3
pycairo-1.0.2-1.1
pygtk2-2.8.2-2.1
pygtk2-libglade-2.8.2-2.1
pyorbit-2.0.1-4.1
pyparted-1.6.10-1.1
PyQt-3.15-1.1
python-2.4.2-2.1
python-elementtree-1.2.6-4.1
python-numeric-23.7-2.1
python-sqlite-1.1.6-1.1
python-urlgrabber-2.9.6-4.1
pyxf86config-0.3.22-1
PyXML-0.8.4-3.1
qt-3.3.5-11
quota-3.13-1.1
rdate-1.4-4.1
rdist-6.1.5-42.1
readline-5.0-3
readline-5.0-3.1
redhat-artwork-0.131-1.1
redhat-lsb-1.3-10.1
redhat-menus-5.0.6-1
redhat-menus-5.0.7-3.1
rhgb-0.16.2-12
rhpl-0.181-1
rhpxl-0.9-1
rhythmbox-0.9.2-3.1
rkhunter-1.1.9-2
rmt-0.4b40-5.1
rootfiles-8.1-1.1
rpm-4.4.2-11
rpm-4.4.2-7
rpm-devel-4.4.2-11
rpm-libs-4.4.2-11
rpm-python-4.4.2-11
rp-pppoe-3.5-30.1
rsh-0.17-33.1
rsync-2.6.6-2.1
samba-client-3.0.20b-2
samba-client-3.0.20b-2.1
samba-common-3.0.20b-2
samba-common-3.0.20b-2.1
sane-backends-1.0.17-1
sane-frontends-1.0.14-1.1
screen-4.0.2-10.1
scrollkeeper-0.3.14-5
scrollkeeper-0.3.14-5.1
SDL-1.2.9-2.1.1
sed-4.1.4-1
sed-4.1.4-1.1
selinux-policy-2.1.6-16
selinux-policy-targeted-2.1.6-16
sendmail-8.13.5-2.1
sendmail-cf-8.13.5-2.1
setarch-1.8-1.1
setools-2.2-4.1
setserial-2.17-19.1
setup-2.5.47-1.1.1
setuptool-1.17.3-1.1
sgml-common-0.6.3-17
shadow-utils-4.0.13-4.1
shared-mime-info-0.16.cvs20051219-1
sip-4.3.1-1.1
slang-2.0.5-5.1
slib-3a1-5
slib-3a1-5.1
slrn-0.9.8.1pl1-1.1
sound-juicer-2.13.1-2.1
sox-12.17.9-1
spamassassin-3.1.0-2.fc5
spamassassin-3.1.0-3.fc5.1
specspo-9.0.92-1.3.1
speex-1.0.5-1.1
sqlite-3.2.7-2.1
sqlite-devel-3.2.7-2.1
startup-notification-0.8-3.1
statserial-1.1-38.1
stunnel-4.14-2.1
sudo-1.6.8p12-1.1
switchdesk-4.0.8-2
symlinks-1.2-24.1
synaptics-0.14.4-4.1
sysklogd-1.4.1-33
sysklogd-1.4.1-34
syslinux-3.10-2.1
sysreport-1.4.2-7
system-config-date-1.7.99.11-1
system-config-date-1.7.99.5-1
system-config-display-1.0.33-1
system-config-display-1.0.33-1.1
system-config-keyboard-1.2.7-1
system-config-keyboard-1.2.7-1.1
system-config-language-1.1.10-1
system-config-language-1.1.10-1.1
system-config-lvm-1.0.8-1.0.1
system-config-network-1.3.30-2.1
system-config-network-tui-1.3.30-2.1
system-config-packages-1.2.25-1
system-config-packages-1.2.25-1.1
system-config-printer-0.6.146-1
system-config-printer-gui-0.6.146-1
system-config-rootpassword-1.1.8-1
system-config-rootpassword-1.1.8-1.1
system-config-securitylevel-1.6.12-1.1
system-config-securitylevel-1.6.9-1
system-config-securitylevel-tui-1.6.12-1.1
system-config-services-0.8.26-1
system-config-services-0.8.26-1.1
system-config-soundcard-1.2.14-1
system-config-soundcard-1.2.14-1.1
system-config-users-1.2.41-1
system-config-users-1.2.41-1.1
SysVinit-2.86-2
talk-0.17-29.1
tar-1.15.1-11
tar-1.15.1-11.1
tcl-8.4.11-1
tcl-8.4.11-1.1
tcp_wrappers-7.6-39.1
tcsh-6.14-5
tcsh-6.14-5.1
telnet-0.17-35.1
termcap-5.4-7.1
time-1.7-27
time-1.7-27.1
tmpwatch-2.9.6-1.1
tomcat5-servlet-2.4-api-5.0.30-8jpp_7fc
totem-1.3.0-1
traceroute-1.0.3-5.1
ttmkfdir-3.0.9-19.1
tzdata-2005q-2
udev-075-4
udev-078-2
unix2dos-2.2-26.1
unzip-5.52-1
urw-fonts-2.3-5
urw-fonts-2.3-6.1
usermode-1.84-1.1
usermode-gtk-1.84-1.1
utempter-0.5.5-7.1
util-linux-2.13-0.10.pre5
util-linux-2.13-0.12
vconfig-1.8-7.1
vim-common-6.4.004-1.1
vim-enhanced-6.4.004-1.1
vim-minimal-6.4.004-1.1
vino-2.12.0-2
vino-2.12.0-2.1
vixie-cron-4.1-41.FC5
vixie-cron-4.1-42.FC5
vnc-4.1.1-31
vnc-server-4.1.1-22
vnc-server-4.1.1-31
vorbis-tools-1.1.1-1.1
vte-0.11.16-1.fc5.1
wget-1.10.2-3
wget-1.10.2-3.1
which-2.16-6
which-2.16-6.1
wireless-tools-28-0.pre10.5.1
wvdial-1.54.0-5.2
xalan-j2-2.6.0-3jpp_6fc
xboard-4.2.7-11.fc5
xchat-2.6.0-3.1
xdelta-1.1.3-17.1
xerces-j2-2.6.2-6jpp_1fc
xml-common-0.6.3-17
xml-commons-1.0-0.b2.7jpp_4fc
xml-commons-apis-1.0-0.b2.7jpp_4fc
xml-commons-resolver-1.1-1jpp_7fc
xmlsec1-1.2.9-2
xmlsec1-1.2.9-4
xmlsec1-nss-1.2.9-4
xorg-x11-apps-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-drivers-0.99.2-4
xorg-x11-drv-acecad-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-aiptek-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-apm-1.0.1.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-ark-0.5.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-ati-6.5.7-1
xorg-x11-drv-calcomp-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-chips-1.0.1-1
xorg-x11-drv-cirrus-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-citron-2.1.1.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-cyrix-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-digitaledge-1.0.1-1
xorg-x11-drv-dmc-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-dummy-0.1.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-dynapro-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-elo2300-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-elographics-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-evdev-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-fbdev-0.1.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-fpit-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-glint-1.0.1-1
xorg-x11-drv-hyperpen-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-i128-1.1.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-i740-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-i810-1.4.1-1
xorg-x11-drv-jamstudio-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-joystick-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-keyboard-1.0.1-1
xorg-x11-drv-magellan-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-magictouch-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-mga-1.2.1-1
xorg-x11-drv-microtouch-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-mouse-1.0.1-2
xorg-x11-drv-mutouch-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-neomagic-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-nsc-2.7.6.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-nv-1.0.1.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-palmax-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-penmount-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-rendition-4.0.1-1
xorg-x11-drv-s3-0.3.5.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-s3virge-1.8.6.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-savage-2.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-siliconmotion-1.3.1.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-sis-0.8.1-1
xorg-x11-drv-sisusb-0.7.1-1
xorg-x11-drv-spaceorb-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-summa-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-tdfx-1.1.1-1
xorg-x11-drv-trident-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-tseng-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-ur98-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-vesa-1.0.1-1
xorg-x11-drv-vga-4.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-via-0.1.31.1-1
xorg-x11-drv-vmware-10.11.1-1
xorg-x11-drv-void-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-drv-voodoo-1.0.0.2-1
xorg-x11-filesystem-0.99.2-3
xorg-x11-fonts-100dpi-0.99.0-6
xorg-x11-fonts-100dpi-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-fonts-75dpi-0.99.0-6
xorg-x11-fonts-75dpi-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-fonts-base-0.99.0-6
xorg-x11-fonts-base-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-fonts-misc-0.99.0-6
xorg-x11-fonts-misc-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-fonts-truetype-0.99.0-6
xorg-x11-fonts-truetype-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-fonts-Type1-0.99.0-6
xorg-x11-fonts-Type1-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-font-utils-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-server-utils-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.0.0-3
xorg-x11-twm-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-utils-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-xauth-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-xdm-0.99.3-6
xorg-x11-xfs-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-xinit-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-xkbdata-1.0.0-1
xorg-x11-xkb-utils-1.0.0-1
xsane-0.98a-1.1
xsane-gimp-0.97-1
xsane-gimp-0.98a-1.1
xscreensaver-base-4.22-21.2
xscreensaver-extras-4.22-21.2
xsri-2.1.0-9.1
xterm-207-10
yelp-2.12.1-5
yelp-2.13.2-2
ypbind-1.17.2-5
ypbind-1.17.2-5.1
yp-tools-2.8-8.1
yum-2.5.0-5
zip-2.31-1.1
zisofs-tools-1.0.6-3.1
zlib-1.2.3-1.1
zlib-devel-1.2.3-1.1
zsh-4.2.5-1

[Zigzagcom]

Which of these rpm's are duplicate?

In some instances there are same rpm's that have different version numbers, but that doesn't make them duplicates.

[Ergo12]

Surely you must be joking? For example :-

pinfo-0.6.8-11
pinfo-0.6.8-11.1

It is supposed to delete pinfo-0.6.8-11 and install pinfo-0.6.8-11.1

[Ergo12]

The output from yum grouplist:-

Loading "installonlyn" plugin
Setting up Group Process
Setting up repositories
Installed Groups:
Office/Productivity
Editors
System Tools
Text-based Internet
Network Servers
Games and Entertainment
Printing Support
KDE Software Development
Mail Server
Sound and Video
Graphical Internet
Available Groups:
Engineering and Scientific
MySQL Database
Administration Tools
GNOME Software Development
XFCE Software Development
X Software Development
Legacy Network Server
DNS Name Server
GNOME Desktop Environment
Authoring and Publishing
FTP Server
XFCE
Legacy Software Development
Java Development
X Window System
Graphics
Web Server
Windows File Server
Eclipse
KDE (K Desktop Environment)
Server Configuration Tools
PostgreSQL Database
News Server
Development Tools
Done

As you can see i only did a workstation install. One can only imagine if i had done an everything install used extras and 10000 rpm's were then duplicated :)

[RahulSundaram]

The output from yum grouplist:-

Loading "installonlyn" plugin
Setting up Group Process
Setting up repositories
Installed Groups:
Office/Productivity
Editors
System Tools
Text-based Internet
Network Servers
Games and Entertainment
Printing Support
KDE Software Development
Mail Server
Sound and Video
Graphical Internet
Available Groups:
Engineering and Scientific
MySQL Database
Administration Tools
GNOME Software Development
XFCE Software Development
X Software Development
Legacy Network Server
DNS Name Server
GNOME Desktop Environment
Authoring and Publishing
FTP Server
XFCE
Legacy Software Development
Java Development
X Window System
Graphics
Web Server
Windows File Server
Eclipse
KDE (K Desktop Environment)
Server Configuration Tools
PostgreSQL Database
News Server
Development Tools
Done

As you can see i only did a workstation install. One can only imagine if i had done an everything install used extras and 10000 rpm's were then duplicated :)

Post the list of duplicates to the Fedora test list. This is not a development forum.

[Finalzone]

Surely you must be joking? For example :-

pinfo-0.6.8-11
pinfo-0.6.8-11.1

It is supposed to delete pinfo-0.6.8-11 and install pinfo-0.6.8-11.1

You use FC5T1 for testing and reporting bugs, not for production. You should expect to encounter problems.
Those packages you list are not duplicates because of versionning that show it is minor fixes.
These behaviors will change with FC5T2.

[Ergo12]

Post the list of duplicates to the Fedora test list. This is not a development forum.

Who said anything about a test list? I viewed the request for duplicates as a cast of dispersion. I notice you have ignored the question about how "officially" duplicates are supposed to be removed.

May you care to answer this?

I notice some dude has butted in rudely with "Do not use this for production..." who said i used FC5T1 for production? I was only assessing the changes since i last used Fedora. It is so bad it should not be released. Now that support for APT is dropped will the problems in rpm go away?

[Firewing1]

Well, i guess then just re-install FC4 and enjoy the apt while you can. Or just don't upgrade to fc5.
Firewing1

[RahulSundaram]

Who said anything about a test list? I viewed the request for duplicates as a cast of dispersion. I notice you have ignored the question about how "officially" duplicates are supposed to be removed.

May you care to answer this?

I notice some dude has butted in rudely with "Do not use this for production..." who said i used FC5T1 for production? I was only assessing the changes since i last used Fedora. It is so bad it should not be released. Now that support for APT is dropped will the problems in rpm go away?

Its not a cast of dispersion. If you see any bug you can post to fedora-test list or file a bug report. thats the only way to deal with it if you want them fixed.

Yum-utils like I already said offers multiple utilities and plugins to resolve such issues. Its not a question of Fedora not supporting APT but APT-RPM itself being unmaintained and unless a bug report is filed there is no way to fix any issues attributed to it.

[bob]

Rahul, I know you have important business elsewhere. I suggest you leave the members who will not follow instructions and who only seek to FLAME to talk to themselves. Ergo12, your attitude is not acceptable.

[jim]

FYI filed a bug againts Nautilus for its "Default View"

Bug 176743 Submitted: Nautilus's Default View


For a poll see thread http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=90291

[Ergo12]

Rahul, I know you have important business elsewhere. I suggest you leave the members who will not follow instructions and who only seek to FLAME to talk to themselves. Ergo12, your attitude is not acceptable.
Having seen the above comment and (an additional separate PM) from justol'bob i wish to reiterate the folowing :- (This also serves as a public reply to justol'bob private PM).
- It was not my intention to FLAME or to talk to myself.
- It was not my intention to belittle/disrespect RAUL either in his capacity as a RedHat Employee/Forum representative or (as i have just learned in the PM) a Community Manager.
- Filing bug reports can be met with a NOT A BUG or be covered by AN existing bug report.(If you follow the mailing list/bugzilla look at the responses for requests to turn off services/supply other ISO's)
- Mailing lists generate thousands of emails (I already subscribe to several high volume lists)
- As this was a Fedora Core 5 Test 1 review, it did come across as strange that no-one else had reported the duplication issue. Contrary to what someone has suggested above, if you read www.rpm.org, duplication IS NOT A FEATURE.

[lsatenstein]

I definitively vote for "smartpm" instead of "Pup".
Smartpm is the tool FC5 should include.
Smart looks very nice, If I was Fedora, I would explore it. However...

Fedora (Red Hat) would want to support it for their requirements, and I don't think they can do that. Therefore, it is a me too product to PUP, which I believe will be tailored to Fedora requirements.

I firmly believe that there has to be a merge of products, so they all use the same back engine, and therefore, only differ in the gui front end.

We have that with hardware, we have it with Kernels, so why not with every other product. Cut out the duplication. Do we require 5 sound libraries, and ever so many other duplicate systems? There is a need for a base system, and let the duplicates be experimental. But give me a set of base products that work reliably.

[Finalzone]

Smart looks very nice, If I was Fedora, I would explore it. However...

Fedora (Red Hat) would want to support it for their requirements, and I don't think they can do that. Therefore, it is a me too product to PUP, which I believe will be tailored to Fedora requirements.

I firmly believe that there has to be a merge of products, so they all use the same back engine, and therefore, only differ in the gui front end.

PUP is a package updater i.e. a front end for the command "yum update ..." developed by a Fedora developer.
System-config-packages is the front end of yum. You can see a sneak preview (http://www.fedoraforum.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=1691&c=1&cutoffdate=all). Currently not complete but you can notice it is more user-friendly which is suitable for beginners. SUSE users will notice some similarities with YaST frontend.
Smart was not selected because it doesn't support multilib and not "user-friendly". That package manager should be in Extras repository soon.

Overall, users will get more choice of package managers.

[lsatenstein]

As I mentioned in my reply, and you in yours, the product looks great. Currently I am testing yum with fc5, and with it yumex. I have no real liking for yumex, as it does quite a few things under the covers (so to speak), Yumex with fc5 is much faster, as is yum. Yum with fc5 takes wild cards, and I did a
yum update "kd*" which went out and did its thing pretty fast.

I believe that there will be a convergence to one or two versions of updaters. Yum / pup, and the debian version. Who knows. it is a wait and see.

Leslie
(A fan of Jack Layton)

[RahulSundaram]

Having seen the above comment and (an additional separate PM) from justol'bob i wish to reiterate the folowing :- (This also serves as a public reply to justol'bob private PM).
- It was not my intention to FLAME or to talk to myself.
- It was not my intention to belittle/disrespect RAUL either in his capacity as a RedHat Employee/Forum representative or (as i have just learned in the PM) a Community Manager.
- Filing bug reports can be met with a NOT A BUG or be covered by AN existing bug report.(If you follow the mailing list/bugzilla look at the responses for requests to turn off services/supply other ISO's)
- Mailing lists generate thousands of emails (I already subscribe to several high volume lists)
- As this was a Fedora Core 5 Test 1 review, it did come across as strange that no-one else had reported the duplication issue. Contrary to what someone has suggested above, if you read www.rpm.org, duplication IS NOT A FEATURE.

If you are not prepared to file bug reports or post to the appropriate mailing list where it would reach the developers there is not much point in posting here since this is a end user forum which relevant developers do not read.

Bug reports that are true bugs are not to be closed as NOTABUG. if they are accidentally you as a reporter can always reopen it and provide better rationale. Test releases can have bugs and testers using them are hopefully interested in informing the developers and having their bugs alleged or otherwise get fixed rather than post to a end user forum and waste their time and energy. I will let you choose

[Ergo12]

This thread has a danger of going out of topic by focusing on package managers rather than your experiences with FC5T1. I've started a new thread on alternative package managers here (http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?p=428506)

I would have expected to see indepth talk on FC5T1 and how it matches/fails to meet your expectations. Technically speaking users are right to highlight any bugs/issues here as this is a FC5T1 thread, in the same way a review of FC5T1 conducted on Slashdot/any other independent site on the net.

[whiteelephant]

FC5t2 ROCKS!! Graphics are almost entirely new, form install to add-delete (by the way no cd/dvd required for add -remove.....yum by default). for the nasay community...be prepared...it is different (TEST!!!)That considerable effort was spent to bring an excellent product to market is obvious....especially this early in development. Just a general comment not aimed at any individuals.... All recetal-cranial inversion issues should be resolved before attempting new code. thx.

[lsatenstein]

PUP or YUM
My frustrations.
Since the first day I installed FC5 Test2, I was delighted with the packages offered. But on a couple of days, the download list became very large, and before long, I had error reports about missing prerequisities. The error messages were sometimes cryptic and less than encouraging, and painful to diagnose for the over 100 entries that appeared to update.

I started with a binary search, doing a group of updates at a time. Eventually I was able to update all entries but three.

So what... you say.

It would be nice that when such a problem occurs, that yum setup give the user the option of clicking a check box to signal YUM to redo the dependency tests, omitting the items that caused the rejection(s).

That would have saved me hours and hours of doing groups of updates at a time.


Next. I would want to open a discussion about defining a term I call a "YUM EX" session. I would love the opportunity to say that a yumex session is the request to install or update modules at one execution.

And with this session execution concept, that somewhere, I have the option to create a backup tree containing the items being replaced. I have found too often, both in Fedora Core 4, which is now very stable, and Core5 test2, that installing patches is taking the chance to lose the system. (I can tell you that as of my writing this note, that a patched HAL component fails to load, that that causes Gnome power module to fail as well. The other day due to other errrors, I could not log out from Gnome, except by the hard power switch reboot. That problem was cured the next day when some updates from Core5 test team were installed.

In closing. YUMEX, only tackles the install of software respecting dependencies. True, RPM permits a recovery to a time stamp, should that parameter be set, but rpm is in the bowels of yum and not directly settable. I would like to have the ability, with a quick execution of a single command, to undo the full install of one or more session executions.

[RahulSundaram]

PUP or YUM
My frustrations.
Since the first day I installed FC5 Test2, I was delighted with the packages offered. But on a couple of days, the download list became very large, and before long, I had error reports about missing prerequisities. The error messages were sometimes cryptic and less than encouraging, and painful to diagnose for the over 100 entries that appeared to update.

I started with a binary search, doing a group of updates at a time. Eventually I was able to update all entries but three.

So what... you say.

It would be nice that when such a problem occurs, that yum setup give the user the option of clicking a check box to signal YUM to redo the dependency tests, omitting the items that caused the rejection(s).

That would have saved me hours and hours of doing groups of updates at a time.


Next. I would want to open a discussion about defining a term I call a "YUM EX" session. I would love the opportunity to say that a yumex session is the request to install or update modules at one execution.

And with this session execution concept, that somewhere, I have the option to create a backup tree containing the items being replaced. I have found too often, both in Fedora Core 4, which is now very stable, and Core5 test2, that installing patches is taking the chance to lose the system. (I can tell you that as of my writing this note, that a patched HAL component fails to load, that that causes Gnome power module to fail as well. The other day due to other errrors, I could not log out from Gnome, except by the hard power switch reboot. That problem was cured the next day when some updates from Core5 test team were installed.

In closing. YUMEX, only tackles the install of software respecting dependencies. True, RPM permits a recovery to a time stamp, should that parameter be set, but rpm is in the bowels of yum and not directly settable. I would like to have the ability, with a quick execution of a single command, to undo the full install of one or more session executions.

In a development release of course you would get many updates frequently. For working around dependencies and updating the rest refer to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras

Yumex is maintained in Extras and is not part of FC. You can file bugs and feature requests in http://bugzilla.redhat.com against yumex in Fedora Extras

If you want to send feedback on test/development releases then fedora-test list better

http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list

Happy testing

[lsatenstein]

Rahul

I believe that you mis-understood my previous entry. That entry was a report of experience with both YUMEX and PUP. At no time did YUM, PUP or YUM EX fail. I was only trying to point out their short comings, and to add a wish list.

I got to this list from the DUKE UNIV link. I believe the home of YUMEX is Duke. Thus, I posted what I believe is a shortcoming in both PUP (which I use) and with YUMEX, which I also use.

Thank you for the feedback.

[RahulSundaram]

Rahul

I believe that you mis-understood my previous entry. That entry was a report of experience with both YUMEX and PUP. At no time did YUM, PUP or YUM EX fail. I was only trying to point out their short comings, and to add a wish list.

I got to this list from the DUKE UNIV link. I believe the home of YUMEX is Duke. Thus, I posted what I believe is a shortcoming in both PUP (which I use) and with YUMEX, which I also use.

Thank you for the feedback.

I understand you are providing feedback but the feedback should reach the developers too. Right? You can do that by posting such feedback to fedora-test list and filing bugs in bugzilla wherever possible. You can post shortcomings to the list too.

Yumex is not developed in Duke though yum is. Yumex homepage is http://linux.rasmil.dk/cms/