wow i hate windows

[steve941]

After using fedora now for a while, i can't stand windows (xp mostly) anymore.. I am fed up with it. I went home and added a 2nd hard drive to my old pc so i could have a triple boot (98se, then FC4 and XP home on other drive) well I set it up great then I had to use the xp restore function on the disc to fix win xp which changed my drive letters and made both windows os inoperable yet FC4 still worked like nothining ever happend. And now I'm fixing my brother's laptop and I had to write zeros to his drive and reinstall xp home and im on a high speed lan and its taking me 2 hours to get all the windows updates. Yeah the downloads are fast but I have to restart 4 times and always find more updates waiting, why can't it download all the updates at one time?
Thats why theres fedora.. I love it.

[erroneus]

We feel your pain, but really -- this is a testimonial, not a support question.

[Omega Blue]

Yeah. As I said, some (actually most) Linux distros now install faster than Windows XP, and much less painful too.

[GarySaved]

I am using FC4.
I saw a progam I had liked under Windows, so I re-installed XP to try it.
After going thru downloading/rebooting half a dozen times, I got to where I could actually use it.

After getting used to Linux, I found I do not like Windows. Nothing is where it should be, and I had to look all over to find ways of doing things that are right there in Linux.

Lets see: It is harder to install, slower, less convenient to use, and full of security holes, and costs money...

There is no comparison, Linux has it, hands down.

To finalize my decision, I broke, and threw out my XP install cdroms.

GarySaved

[imdeemvp]

I dont think I can say "I hate windows" I just dont trust it. BUT believe me if you guys stick around fedora for a long time you get the same feeling sometimes specially when they throw a broken kernel at as.

[Omega Blue]

Remember, "production quality" software coming from Microsoft is actually beta stuff.

[Furball]

I don't hate windows, I just don't like it :D

[mndar]

I agree with imdeemvp. I don't hate windows but it not being open source, I rate it lowest. The problem is you never know what it is doing behind the scenes. You might think you are just sending an email to your colleague when in fact microsoft is analysing it and using it for its advantage.I know this sounds crazy but you get my point, don't you?

[va3nee]

I like windows. I love linux. The only real flaws windows has is it is not open source, (but I guess people have to make money) it has to restart so many damn times, it dosent use the linux kernel, it is windows, and it is so damn annoying and buggy to run for coming from a yottabillion dollar company (even more buggy and annoying than EA, and thats saying something!!!)
A few of the flaws linux has is it is not windows,(compatibility wise) its not all that user friendly to the average user,(I mean home user, not linux geek like me) and it is too, well, bloated. (KDE, Gnome, LookingGlass, not just the kernel!)

Man, I had to reinstall windows. It took like a friggen day just to format the partition! it takes linux like 15 seconds!! WTF!(excuse my language)

[frodopunk]

Remember windows 98 with it's general protection faults,virtual device drivers,the blue screen of death.I remember system lockups for no apparent reason,and having to do a clean install at least once a year.Windows XP is better so I have not given up on windows completely,but linux is so powerful and stable it's hard not to like it.

[Hiro Takahama]

FC4 all the way right here. w00t! ^_^

[karl_marx]

windows (xp) has way too many weird folders and files that you're not allowed to delete. example: "C:\Program Files\xerox\nwwia" it's empty for god's sake! i just want to kill it! why won't it die? and another thing: you can't actually delete a user account, it secretly keeps all of their documents in a stupid directory (what ever happened to "C:\My Documents"?) then it gets confused because there are two sets of documents and only one user account, so all the shortcuts go wacky and lead to the wrong one, which can't be deleted, because windows "needs" it. but i have to say it seems faster than FC4.

[nyinge]

For me... after using Linux, Windows just bores me out plain. XP just lacks versitality, whereas there are many things to play around with, such as the availability of various software.

[mndar]

Do we like Linux so much just because the entire population of home users generally use windows and we want to be different ? Is it that we are just bored with windows, with its Start button that it has been using since windows 95? Have we started disliking windows just because it was the first OS most of us used and by now have explored pretty much everything in the os, done pretty much everything there is to do with it? I am still trying to convince myself that this isn't true.

That being said, I find any Linux distro far more interesting and fun to use than windows. Probably because I like using the command line to do complex tasks. Makes me feel in control. GUI is fine, only if you have a bad memory!

I am looking forward to using the scripting shell microsoft might include in longhorn.

[powereds]

the only thing that keeps me using windoze is because of the email which uses an exchange server 5.5. if its an exchange 2000, ive been using evolution with connection as a client. also, i can't find any connector for exchange 5.5. :mad:

so guys there, if you have a connector for exchange 5.5, please tell me where can i find it or share it :)
thanks.

[dishawjp]

Windows... I like windows. I can sit in my kitchen and look outside. I can see trees and grass and all. I can see if it's raining from my bedroom and not get wet. I really like windows and couldn't imagine living in a house without them.

Oh, wait! You mean the stuff that used to be on computers?!? I think that it still comes on some new computers. Oh, that. Ugghh! I remember when I used to use that stuff. I didn't like that at all. I remember scandisk and defrag and spyware and viruses and .dll hell and blue screens and all that. It was ugly. Too much work when all I wanted to do was use my computer. None of that stuff on my personal computers now and.... YAY!!!! FINALLY at work, no MSWindows at work either!!! Life is good!!!

OK, so at work it's SUSE 10 because we're a Novell shop. It's a bit different from Fedora, but it's Linux... it's solid, stable and quite nice. At least once you get used to the differences from Fedora. And soooooo much better than MSWindows!!

Yeah, I really don't like Windows on my computers, but I do like windows in my house :-)

Jim

[kona0197]

I would play the devil's advocate and respond but this is a Linux website and I don't need to be in trouble again.

[a thing]

I hate Windows too. The kernel's so bad you can't even have multiple processes use the same file. This can be quite frustrating at school.

The best thing Windows has done for me is make an application the teacher was using in science class crash, resulting in no time to explain the homework :p

[glanz]

Windows... I like windows. I can sit in my kitchen and look outside. I can see trees and grass and all. I can see if it's raining from my bedroom and not get wet. I really like windows and couldn't imagine living in a house without them.
Jim

Sorry, but you no longer have the right to use the word "Windows"... Monopolo$oft has trademarked, copyrighted, and patented the word. You will now be sued, and for punishment, you'll have to visit all the English dictionaries in the world, one by one, with a pair of scissors to snip out that word when it refers to those clear, see-through thingies that people install on the walls of their houses.

[dishawjp]

Sorry, but you no longer have the right to use the word "Windows"... Monopolo$oft has trademarked, copyrighted, and patented the word. You will now be sued, and for punishment, you'll have to visit all the English dictionaries in the world, one by one, with a pair of scissors to snip out that word when it refers to those clear, see-through thingies that people install on the walls of their houses.


"Clear see-through thingies that people install in the walls of their houses" seems to be a bit awkward. Maybe we should start calling them "fedoras." :-)

Jim

[Christy]

"Clear see-through thingies that people install in the walls of their houses" seems to be a bit awkward. Maybe we should start calling them "fedoras." :-)

Jim


Seems to me that a fedora is a hat, not a clear pane of glass that is placed in a hole in a wall :)...perhapse we need a meeting to determine an appropriate name for these clear objects. (I vote for "look-sees" :) )

[JN4OldSchool]

No,no, It's all in the capitol/lowercase W. W=Bill Gates, w=the clear look see thingies. Kinda like "I love windows", "I hate Windows"...Y'all know, "I have 10 unlicensed windows in my house"=way to go!!! and "I have 10 unlicensed Windows in my house"= see you in court bud!

[hexadecimalboy]

Yes I love Linux but what do 90%of the pcs out there running? Windows. Linux is more stable powerful and has a larger online community but we are all probably forced to use windows at school or something. The opperating system that I think should not be used and should be pushed out of the computer world is mac.

[CaseyB]

Macs are one of the few OS's that can run on multi-processor systems! The new G5 (I think that's the one) comes with two dual-core processors! Not to mention that MacOS is much more stable than Windows!

[dishawjp]

Yes I love Linux but what do 90%of the pcs out there running? Windows. Linux is more stable powerful and has a larger online community but we are all probably forced to use windows at school or something. The opperating system that I think should not be used and should be pushed out of the computer world is mac.

Whaaaat??!!??

MacOS X is a solid, reliable, Unix-based OS and if I weren't able to run Linux, I would certainly be running MacOS X. My youngest daughter has a dual boot Slackware/Fedora box and a Mac and she probably uses her Mac more than her Linux box :-(. OK, so she prefers Mac, at least neither of my kids run MSWindows. And Laura is still young, only 21. When she gets older she may spend more time with Linux than with MacOS.

Mac comes with perl, vi, almost al the Linux/Unix commands we use with Fedora. My biggest complaint with Macs is that they do a pretty good job of hiding their xterm. Other than that, and the fact that it only runs on their hardware and some of their OS is closed source it's pretty decent. But if I didn't have a way to run Linux (or one of the BSDs) I sure as heck would be running a Mac.

If the only OS I could run was MSWindows, I'd go back to a pencil and a calculator. Hell, I'd rather run a frigging abacus than MSWindows.

Just my $.02

Jim

[rayyes]

I use linux at home, but I just started a job where the whole organization depends on windows-only software. its not that they like windows more, its just that from a business point of view, as it is, windows is more effective/efficient/productive/etc (for now at least). if i was to suggest switching to linux they would laugh in my face.

[dishawjp]

if i was to suggest switching to linux they would laugh in my face.

I faced the same problem at work for years :-( The good news, for me anyway, is that we are a Novell shop and are in the process of moving to Linux on the server side. This gave me an opening to get either SUSE or NLD for my desktop. I now happily run SUSE 10 on my desktop machine at work and various flavors of Fedora/RedHat at home.

They laughed at me for years, but now I'm just smiling...

Jim

[erroneus]

The hurdle that everyone needs to get over is mostly in their own heads. Asside from specific applications, most Linux distros will pretty much do whatever the masses need. The print, they email, they process words and numbers. It's a tool for work and it works nicely. It's the change to a new thing that's difficult.

Linux on the server side is an easy change to make... well the basics of it. I'm still somewhat daunted by the whole authentication thing. In Windows and Novell, I'm accustomed to seeing a login script and stuff like that. I know it can be done with Linux too, but I just don't know how and I'm sure there are plenty of how-to documents on the net, but I haven't read through any from front to back yet and I fear they don't offer a complete guide to a single implementation. (I am quite certain there are endless varieties and opinions about the way it should be done... I just want one, hand-holding guide, that will show me a simple and easy way to do something with LDAP or whatever.)

Anyway, once the mental hurdle is crossed and SysAdmins have an easy way to get clients authenticating, I'd say we were mere inches from implementation.

[sadmac]

Specific apps can be a doozy though.

When it gets down to it, I need 3ds max. Not an open source substitute, but actual 3ds max. There's just nothing else that does it. I'm quickly learning to dislike GIMP too (We had a little dispute about anti-aliasing the other day), and I want my Photoshop back. And then there's computer games...

But you know what? Its worth it. My computer works. What else could I want?

[Thetargos]

We feel your pain, but really -- this is a testimonial, not a support question.
Err... This was posted on the community lounge... hehe

BUT believe me if you guys stick around fedora for a long time you get the same feeling sometimes specially when they throw a broken kernel at as.
Ohh, yeah... One of the reasons I use custom kernels :D I remember one of the 2.6.10's and one of the 2.6.12's which was real bad. My fiancè actually alerted me about that, so I installed a custom kernel on her machine too :)

As for me... I don't hate Windows, I simply don't use it, after a while in Linux, I don't seem to be able to find my way in Windows... Feels cluttered and cumbersome to use (but that's just me). I had to give up some things when I moved to Linux, but the benefits outweighed the sacrifice I did. Thus far I've no complaints with Linux... Well, I've had a few, but I knew about what they are about before hand, so they're no complaints, just corroborations.

Windows and Linux have their place, just as MacOS X has its place too... There's much work left to do if anyone would like to give Linux the big push into the desktop computers, especially work on the promotion front. And let us not forget about the whole multimedia, software freedom and patents issues... Once all figured out, and good promotion, Linux on the desktop will take off... not before.

[dba7dba]

I'm a relative newbie with Linux, mostly FC4. But there are 2 things I like about linux.
1) Recently a kernel update via 'yum update' caused a kernel panic but I didn't have to reinstall the box to fix it. If something like that happened on Win XP, your only safe option is reinstall the OS and apps. This of course needs to be done twice, 1st done without formatting to copy out files (since most don't backup :) ) and than reinstall OS again by formatting the HD. You could say what about Safe Boot in XP but that options didn't work for me many times.
Basically in LInux, I just paused boot and chose to boot into previous Kernel. I used previous kernel for a few days and when the fixed kernel came out, I just did 'yum update' again and I was good to go with latest kernel.

2) Talking about yum update brings up another point. I'm sure you know about 'yum update'? By running that command once, you get to update not just the OS (or kernel to be more exact) but all apps in your box. In Win, you need to run 'Windows Update' just to update the OS. And than you need to go out and find/download/install patch for each software manually. With Linux and yum, you just need to type 'yum update' one a week or so to get the latest and greatest.

[BandC]

2) Talking about yum update brings up another point. I'm sure you know about 'yum update'? By running that command once, you get to update not just the OS (or kernel to be more exact) but all apps in your box. In Win, you need to run 'Windows Update' just to update the OS. And than you need to go out and find/download/install patch for each software manually. With Linux and yum, you just need to type 'yum update' one a week or so to get the latest and greatest.

This is a good (and often-overlooked) point. You have to update your Windows applications manually and one by one. So yum has a big advantage there. But then in Windows the updates for many applications mean you have to pay to upgrade anyway. :)

[Thetargos]

And with the advent of multiple repos, you don't have that problem in Linux... I wonder if yum supports repos which require authentication, like for instance for people who subscribe to a service, they profide them with a .repo file and a friendly script to configure their Unames and PWs. Useful for Linux proprietary software vendors who would like to sell to yum supporting distributions... Not to mention that Yum is an excellent distribution pathway and higher level package manager (since RPM is the actual package manager for Fedora, Red Hat and others)

[blade0236]

Just thought I´d add my 2 cents...
My current computer is an athlon 64 1.8 (clockable to 2.4) which is incidentally faster than my friends p4 2.6 as standard, with 512mb mem and an Nvidia graphics card (128mb, can´t remember which card but it´s good for most but the latest games). I´ve been using windoze 2k\xp for as long as i´ve had pc´s but last week i bit the bullet and wiped xp to install FC4. I wanted to take advantage of my 64 bit processor, and after looking at future windoze plans (dodgy at best) I decided on FC4. I remember installing FC2 a while back, as a dual boot system, and fixing various problems with it (hd partition table, graphics drivers), and actually enjoying doing it! I find solving problems with linux is often fun, rarely frustrating, and very rewarding. With windoze, i constantly get frustrated just trying to get the damn thing to do what I want!!
Anyway, I´m HOPING not to have to go back to windoze for a while, the only problem is I now can´t run my games. I LIKE MY GAMES. Currently in the middle of chronicles of Riddick, and I keep going back to Diablo II as it´s such a cool game (timeless classic). Oh and Need for Speed U2 as well. Might look around later for some good directX emulation or something, I didn´t have much success with wine, but I´d consider investing in cenega (winex - cenega right??) if it´s any good.

chalk another one up for the linux converts guys!

[Thetargos]

In regards to Win32 emulation/implementations in Linux, I have to give both projects (Wine and Transgaming's Cedega) a two thumbs up. Each is best suited for different puposes, such as Wine for your general Win32 application (like office or some other) and Cedega for games. Though I sustain that Cedega can even threaten games proliferation for Linux in native formats, I think they really do one hell of a job to provide backwards compatibilty to such titles like Diablo II. While Diablo II works also perfectly under Wine, due to the CD protection (and CD seeking) of the Diablo application, I've been unable to make it work with Wine without a NoCD patch. This is not the case for Cedega, though.

[sadmac]

Recent Cedega reviews have been nothing but positive. I intend to get it as well.

Id is still committed to releasing linux binaries for everything (Quake IV was linux almost as soon as it came out) and FOSS-ing the engine as soon as they're done making money. Everywhere Id has gone the industry has followed. The revolution could be near.

[UnknownEntity]

Well, I am not a fan of M$, but I do have to say that their latest versions of Windows work. I have been using Windows 2000 SP4 for years. It was a great OS, and rarely gave me a BSOD. If Windows gives you a BSOD, then there is mostly likely a driver issue. What causes a drier issue? Well, the answer is not M$, but the company that wrote that driver. I haven't had a BSOD in many years now -- Seriously.

However, I do like Linux too. I find it fun to play with. The only OS I really don't like would be BSD, and that is because almost no one supports it.

After using both Linux and Windows, there are things to appreciate from both of them. I really like how fast Windows is now, compared to how it use to be. It's even faster then many of the distros of Linux I have tried (Menus/Windows and what not open and close much faster). I will suspect Linux will catch up to Windows in that regard as soon as KDE/Gnome improve.

I also like how Linux has a fully functional terminal. It's like having a type of a DOS in your main OS. In a way, it's like having two OS running with each other. I find it easier to just open a terminal and execute a command then to use the GUI. I really like updating my machine using yum. :-)

I am actually looking forward to Vista. I want to see if they really did improve the performance like they said they would.

I am also looking forward to FC5 though. :-P

[kona0197]

If the minimum hardware requirements are anything as I have heard than I'll stick with XP and Linux. I don't have enough money to through into upgrades at the moment. They say Vista will run on my 2.6 Ghz Celly but I have heard you need a 3.0 Ghz CPU.

[Thetargos]

If the minimum hardware requirements are anything as I have heard than I'll stick with XP and Linux. I don't have enough money to through into upgrades at the moment. They say Vista will run on my 2.6 Ghz Celly but I have heard you need a 3.0 Ghz CPU.
There are lots of rumors concerning Vista. Most probably Microsoft is not gonna shot themselves in the foot, and try to keep as many users as possible by making the system run on rather low-end computers. However I'm pretty sure that if for XP you needed at least 512Mb RAM for the system to rarely hit swat during normal operation (leaving games aside), vista will most likely REQUIRE 512Mb so it will work as XP with 128Mb or 256Mb RAM. As for CPU speed, I'm pretty sure that turning off Aero Glass will reduce quite a bit the requirements...

Still, I'd much rather stay with my beloved Fedora, than going out and tryuing to install Vista, God only knows what draconian terms will they include this time around in their EULA, and how many times will get to install onto one system the Operating System without it requiring you to buy another license copy, or if even it'll feature "license expirity", and we'll hit the "Software for Rent" era of "personal computing"... I'd much better stay with OpenStandards and with an Operating System that covers all my needs exceptionally well.

[nlkrio]

I use fc4 and xp.The only reason i use xp is gaming.I try wine but works only with few games so i remove it.All the other activities i do them linux way because you can do anything you like and they are Free.

[UnknownEntity]

Well, then tell Linux to work with my soundcard. :-( I wish it could do that like Windows.

Eveything else works, abet not out of the box though. I had to screw with the thing to force it to work. :-(

[sadmac]

I use fc4 and xp.The only reason i use xp is gaming.I try wine but works only with few games so i remove it.All the other activities i do them linux way because you can do anything you like and they are Free.

Cedega. Transgaming.com. Its pay only, but may be worth it (They require you to subscribe to get it, but cancel as soon as possible and you end up paying about $15 for the program.

It officially supports Far Cry, and a bunch of others.

@Unknown: Don't buy wonky hardware :p

Everything but my wireless worked out of the box in core.

[UnknownEntity]

Cedega. Transgaming.com. Its pay only, but may be worth it (They require you to subscribe to get it, but cancel as soon as possible and you end up paying about $15 for the program.

It officially supports Far Cry, and a bunch of others.

@Unknown: Don't buy wonky hardware :p

Everything but my wireless worked out of the box in core.

Audigy2 ZS Platinum Edition? That's wonky hardware eh?

Windows will configure and work with anything.. period. I had to fight linux to get it to work with my 7800GT OC. That was the nvidia drivers fault though.

There isn't any reason for it to not work with my sound card though. Other then the fact that the linux kernel will always have certain bugs.

[nlkrio]

[QUOTE]Other then the fact that the linux kernel will always have certain bugs.
yes but windows have a lot of bugs and you have to wait microsoft to fix them....

[dishawjp]

Windows will configure and work with anything.. period.

Sure... if you have the right drivers... for that particular version of Windows. But try and get old hardware to work with XP. Or new hardware to work with Win95/98. I don't know from personal experience since I don't use Windows, but I understand that it can be quite an undertaking. I do recall some rather amusing times years ago watching friends show me how well Win95 and Win98 could install hardware as their systems became totally trashed. And they were going to convert me to Windows. Yeah. Right.

Other then the fact that the linux kernel will always have certain bugs.

To cite Linux bugs as a reason to use Windows is nothing less than ridiculous. If there is/was ever a buggy operating system it IS Windows. Add in IE, Outlook, and the other malware-soliciting stuff they incorporate into their OS and you have a cesspool. I value my data and its security and even if Linux were a bit more trouble to install and configure than Windows I would still make the additional effort. Fact is that today Linux is EASIER to configure and maintain than Windows. Linux is also more secure and stable because... IT HAS FEWER BUGS!

Google shows that there are lots of people using your particular sound card successfully. Here's
http://www.linuxforum.com/forums/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=62&t=154918
a thread on it which includes some links you may find helpful. Giving some info on your particular problem and including some error messages might get your issue resolved quickly.

But if you'd rather just whine about Linux and its shortcomings and tell people how great Windows is, maybe you should be posting here:
http://www.windowsbbs.com

Whatever.

Jim

[UnknownEntity]

Sure... if you have the right drivers... for that particular version of Windows. But try and get old hardware to work with XP. Or new hardware to work with Win95/98. I don't know from personal experience since I don't use Windows, but I understand that it can be quite an undertaking. I do recall some rather amusing times years ago watching friends show me how well Win95 and Win98 could install hardware as their systems became totally trashed. And they were going to convert me to Windows. Yeah. Right.

To cite Linux bugs as a reason to use Windows is nothing less than ridiculous. If there is/was ever a buggy operating system it IS Windows. Add in IE, Outlook, and the other malware-soliciting stuff they incorporate into their OS and you have a cesspool. I value my data and its security and even if Linux were a bit more trouble to install and configure than Windows I would still make the additional effort. Fact is that today Linux is EASIER to configure and maintain than Windows. Linux is also more secure and stable because... IT HAS FEWER BUGS!

Google shows that there are lots of people using your particular sound card successfully. Here's
http://www.linuxforum.com/forums/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=62&t=154918
a thread on it which includes some links you may find helpful. Giving some info on your particular problem and including some error messages might get your issue resolved quickly.

But if you'd rather just whine about Linux and its shortcomings and tell people how great Windows is, maybe you should be posting here:
http://www.windowsbbs.com

Whatever.

Jim


I haven't had one issue getting Windows 2000 SP3, SP4, or Windows XP to work on any of my boxes. The first versions of Windows 98 were very very bad. You can't even compare Windows 98, let alone even the SE to Windows 2000 SP4 or XP. That's like comparing old Mac OSs to the latest OSX.

I am fairly certain no one can fix the issues I am having. Linux users like to blame my issues on "very broken firmware". However, Windows doesn't seem to care much about my systems BIOS, it's smart enough to take charge and configure the IRQs itself. I don't see why Linux should be so BIOS driven.

I think it is because of these IRQ and "Nobody cared!" bugs that I can't get my sound card to work. Also, I have had Linux freeze on me several times in the past few days. I haven't had Windows freeze on me in since Windows 98se. Windows 98se was the last Windows OS that actually froze on me.

I think Linux was right when it told me "Nobody cared!".... It seems to me that is how Linux is programmed, that is to simply not care.

Tell me, why should I care when Linux won't even give me a proper error message. I am not use to these masked error messages that don't make any sense. It keeps giving me complete BS errors.

Also, just because you use Windows doesn't mean you have to use all of the programs it comes with. I don't like IE at all, so I use mozilla. I don't like Windows Media Player, so I use Winamp for audio and BSPlayer and VideoLan for video.. To say that Windows sucks because of the programs it comes with, THAT is ludacris. At least the core system works.

Linux has it's place, and that is on the server. It was never programmed for the Desktop.

[dishawjp]

I haven't had one issue getting Windows 2000 SP3, SP4, or Windows XP to work on any of my boxes. The first versions of Windows 98 were very very bad. You can't even compare Windows 98, let alone even the SE to Windows 2000 SP4 or XP. That's like comparing old Mac OSs to the latest OSX

I'm comparing Win98 to RH 6.1, not FC4 or SUSE10. Win98 was the last version of Windows I tried to use, but couldn't get it to install properly on my hardware and RH6.1 was the first Linux I used and it did install. Ever since then I've run Linux. Anyway, given that, the comparisons are fair. Both OS's have improved over the last several years.

I haven't had one issue getting Windows 2000 SP3, SP4, or Windows XP to work on any of my boxes.

And you're going to tell me that these OS's are bug-free or less buggy than Linux and that poor coding in these versions of Windows does not leave them with gaping holes that are regularly exploited by virus, worm, trojan, adware and other malware writers? Really? Not with a straight face I hope.

Tell me, why should I care when Linux won't even give me a proper error message. I am not use to these masked error messages that don't make any sense. It keeps giving me complete BS errors.

Now you're really grabbing at straws. I do remember Windows error messages. "General Protection Fault at 47h583m44908zkw980" or similar garbage. I may not be the brightest guy in the world, but those were completely useless and Linux error mesages have always been a lot more helpful than anything I ever saw spit out on those beautiful blue Windows screens.

I am fairly certain no one can fix the issues I am having. Linux users like to blame my issues on "very broken firmware". However, Windows doesn't seem to care much about my systems BIOS, it's smart enough to take charge and configure the IRQs itself. I don't see why Linux should be so BIOS driven.

I haven't read anything much about your sound card problem, only what you posted in this thread recently. Maybe it can be fixed; maybe not. Without more information I really can't tell.

I think Linux was right when it told me "Nobody cared!".... It seems to me that is how Linux is programmed, that is to simply not care.

Really don't know what you're talking about here. Did you get an error message saying that?

I don't like IE at all, so I use mozilla. I don't like Windows Media Player, so I use Winamp for audio and BSPlayer and VideoLan for video.. To say that Windows sucks because of the programs it comes with, THAT is ludacris. At least the core system works.

You're a more intelligent user of Windows than most. Most wouldn't know what Mozilla is or how to install it. Furthermore, you have tried to install Linux and gotten a partially successful install. You're obviously a lot more computer literate than most people. I am surprised that you're still defending Windows, an inherently broken operating system rather than working with us to get your Linux system fully operational.

Linux has it's place, and that is on the server. It was never programmed for the Desktop.

There is a grain of truth in that statement. It was certainly true a few years ago. With distros like FC4, which maintain full server capability it's more true than with some other distros. Yet millions of people world wide are using Linux quite happily as a desktop OS. I use SUSE at work and Fedora Core at home. I can do everything I need and with fewer problems than I ever had with Windows. And believe me, I'm no programmer/hacker/computer wizard. Just a guy who needs to use computers to get stuff done at work and at home.

Jim

[dishawjp]

UnknownEntity,

I did a bit of poking around and found your original post about your problem here:
http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=85663
After reading that and a couple of your other posts, I want to apologize for some of my comments in this thread. THere are some probelms with the ASUS motherboards that do cause some real issues for Linux users. Read this thread:

http://kerneltrap.org/node/5392

through and you may find the solution to your issue. I remembered reading about this a while back and the last post seems to give the resolution.

Anyway, HTH,

Jim

[blade0236]

Audigy2 ZS Platinum Edition? That's wonky hardware eh?

Windows will configure and work with anything.. period. I had to fight linux to get it to work with my 7800GT OC. That was the nvidia drivers fault though.

There isn't any reason for it to not work with my sound card though. Other then the fact that the linux kernel will always have certain bugs.


Can I just point something out? This is from personal experience of building computers and installing different OS´s (win xp, win 2k, Xandros, Fedora Core 2 and 4). BTW I don´t have loads of experience, and often look up problems online. I´ve installed winxp on several machines, and each time I´ve had to either install other drivers for the onboard sound from cd or from internet. Windows won´t recognise it with a standard install. ;) Other drivers I´ve had to install for xp are 3d graphics (standard gpu works but isn´t 3d accelerated), ethernet, wireless, and cpu control drivers to name a few. The only drivers I´m installing for Fedora, are the graphics for 3d, and the wireless. It recognised the ethernet device, the onboard sound device (realtek ac97), and even put in some interesting cpu control thingy (technical term there). "windows will configure and work with anything.." - sure if u install the drivers. If there are no drivers?? Fact is that most if not all hardware manufacturers make hardware with windows in mind, and drivers to match, whereas linux based OS´s rely on the masses to write the drivers for new hardware. Just an aside - many hardware drivers under windows are quite buggy as software is written by people, and people aren´t perfect. Likewise in linux based.

On the other hand, I´ve had awful trouble trying to find drivers for a usb alcatel speedtouch modem. The bugger just doesn´t want to work in xandros. But as many people have said in forums, don´t use usb, use ethernet. I´ve given up on that idea now, and am waiting for a wireless router to be installed in the house, then it´s back to searching for and compiling drivers for yet ANOTHER wireless card. If they exist. My current project however, is to set up the wireless network from my fc4 box, to the winxp box that is the gateway to the net. All the settings for wireless on fc4 are right in front of me, under two simple commands, yet I´ll be damned if I can find all the settings under xp. Things are everywhere, and I´m fed up with `setup wizard´s that, oh, "can´t properly set up your network connection, make sure that all network devices are plugged in and are operational." Plus it´s annoying having to reboot each time you install or remove a device. I just compiled the wireless drivers, inserted the kernel module, and OH, there´s a new device there called ra0!! Where´s the reboot? thrown out along with the chocolate teapot ;)

I don´t want to offend or anything, so don´t take this the wrong way, but I do love a good argument. I do understand how frustrating it is, looking for help with some OS problem, I´ve done it many a time, but to be fair the `user support´ for linux is great IMO. A whole bunch of user dudes, with a whole bunch of different experience, all willing to give THEIR time to help other user dudes fix their machines. Love ya all guys. Far better than an automated telephone voice recording interactive system (conversation is crap with recordings and buttons), or people in some obscure country who know bugger all about that particular setup, and tell you things like "try backing up and re-installing windows" when all you need is an updated driver. (I´m guessing btw.)

My experience with win and lin on the exact same hardware?? win = generally slow, hard to do what I want, unresponsive, unhelpful, works well with most games (slick if you have ample hardware), looks quite pretty, but I just DON´T TRUST IT. lin = generally easy to install from my experience, very stable if you know a bit about what you´re doing and\or stick to some simple guidelines, rock solid, does what I want it to (when I know how to do it), makes you feel like a hardcore hacker when you flip into the shell to compile some new drivers in c for the wireless card, then insert your newly created module into the kernel and set up the wireless without clicking any setup wizard ;), but can be daunting if you want to do anything serious with it.

Stick with linux, learn from the best.

[UnknownEntity]

Yes, on MY machine with this ASUS motherboard not only does Linux give me real problems, but it's much slower then Windows. I have tried several kernels, and I even compiled my own, and none of that solves the issues I am having. After looking into it further I have found out that IRQ 225 is being used by my IDE controller and my sound card.

However, Linux can't dynamically remap resources like IRQs and memory addresses ranges like Windows can. Yes, Windows can remap IRQ and memory ranges. This is why the latest versions of Windows don't have many, if any, IRQ or resource conflicts.

I am defending Windows, yes, and that's because it hasn't failed me. I also have no plans to stick with any one OS. I will keep using Windows as my main OS, and dabble with Linux/Solaris/BSD and any others.

When I installed Windows, I simple installed my updated video card drivers, and my sound card drivers. I didn't need to force anything to get either to work. The system operates very fast, and hasn't crashed or given my any errors.

I couldn't even get most distros of Linux to install on this machine. I had to use a third party Fedora Core that had the latest patches and updates merged into it to even get it to install and boot. Once installed, it started giving me fstab/IRQ/IDE errors. I was able to open the /etc/fstab using nano and fix the damage that that wonderful program known as anaconda did to it.

However, I am unable to repair the problems with the sound system and my IDE controller. It's not like Windows where you can either let the OS fix it automagically, or fix it yourself by simply going to the hardware manager and changing the settings yourself. I suppose Linux doesn't let you change the IRQ settings manually like Windows, but I don't know.. I didn't see a way to do it.

Linux is great on a server with basic video and sound, and advanced server hardware. When you start to mix it with Desktop components like Audiy2's and 7800GT OCs, you get problems. It also doesn't help that my system has three controllers, two NICs, and other devices built right into the motherboard.

Yes, I am a Windows user, and I am a lab technician. I know my way around Windows, and I have been around since it sucked. This may also be why I don't mind it. If you know enough about something to fix anything that goes wrong with it, then I suppose you would be more comfy with it.

I am trying to learn how to use Linux, but it's not very friendly. I feel like I am in a CISCO telnet consol all the time with it.

In anycase, with Windows, if you get any kind of error with todays versions, 9 times out of 10, it's a device driver causing the issue and not the OS itself.

Oh well, maybe later when Linux get's more support for my system it might work better.

I can't even get the refresh rate to operate at the level it should under Linux. It won't let me go above 85Hz when I know for a fact that my system supports 1024x768@100Hz. :-(


"And you're going to tell me that these OS's are bug-free or less buggy than Linux and that poor coding in these versions of Windows does not leave them with gaping holes that are regularly exploited by virus, worm, trojan, adware and other malware writers? Really? Not with a straight face I hope."

Yes, in my experience Windows IS less buggy then Linux. It's easier to code something when you are working with the guys right next to you. With Linux, you have millions of people coding for it, and they have no idea what the other people are doing. They just code their own little projects, and if they work with another persons code, then great. If not, well someone will fix it; right?

I wouldn't say Windows is 100% bug free, -- no OS is 100% bug free. However, I have had less issues with Windows XP SP2 then with FC "4.2" and several kernels.

Also, if you are saying Linux is more secure then Windows, then I have two Linux teachers at my College who would disagree with you. My one professor had his NSA Security Enhanced Linux box hacked into via an SSH vunrability. He ended up formating it because he had no idea what the hacker did to it. That's what happens when you run server code on a desktop. Servers are meant to SHARE data, and access, not to keep people out. Linux is a server operating system.. :-)

Both of them state that Linux is NOT secure right out of the box. We are taught how to secure it, and the main thing they keep telling us is to keep the thing updated with patches and the latest software, or it's asking for trouble.

I was just reading about a Linux virus two days ago. I think it was called Lupii or something similar. In anycase, if you run any Windows machines I strongly recommend you take a look at NOD32. It's by far superior to that Symantec and McAfee junk.

It's also written in ASM, which is VERY fast. :P

[kona0197]

"And you're going to tell me that these OS's are bug-free or less buggy than Linux and that poor coding in these versions of Windows does not leave them with gaping holes that are regularly exploited by virus, worm, trojan, adware and other malware writers? Really? Not with a straight face I hope."

I have an question I would like to ask. Wouldn't you think that if Linux had 90 percent of the desktop market share that it would have all those those things as well? Interesting debate guys.

[egr]

Stop complaning about Linux and IRQ problems, I have seen Windows XP with EXACTLY same problem, and, well some hardware doesn't work perfect in linux, but why? Cause Linux guys have to write drivers on their own, cause companies does not want to provide information about hardware.

[egr]

P.S. well not exaclty, hardware and irq were different

[UnknownEntity]

Stop complaning about Linux and IRQ problems, I have seen Windows XP with EXACTLY same problem, and, well some hardware doesn't work perfect in linux, but why? Cause Linux guys have to write drivers on their own, cause companies does not want to provide information about hardware.

Yes, and in Windows, if the OS can't fix that automagically, and MOST times it can, YOU can manually change the IRQ settings on it. This is the difference between the two OSs.

The hardware has a better chance of working under windows because corporations write software support for Windows before they do so for Linux, if they code for Linux at all.

[Thetargos]

The hardware has a better chance of working under windows because corporations write software support for Windows before they do so for Linux, if they code for Linux at all.
Bingo!

Which is, amongst other issues, necessary to hold companies like Intel, HP, Sun, IBM, et al. true to their commitments to the Linux platform, in the way of either writting code for it and/or allowing someone to do that. IBM already gave a big step by opening a bunch of their patents, as long as they're used in OSS projects, or the OpenPatent initiative fromed by Novell, IBM, Red Hat and others to promote patent sharing in OpenSource projects.

[JN4OldSchool]

Y'all know by now that I never really disliked Windows. I got into Linux just messin' around, looking for something new to learn. About 6 months ago I started working with FC4 and within a month after that I had transfered all my personal and business stuff to the Linux box. I actually have a few computers and I use a KVM switch so my desk isnt overcrowded, but with the exception of playing a few games such as NASCAR Thunder, Quake and a few others, which I really dont do much of (no time), I have spent the last 4-5 months predominatly on FC4. The only time I boot my wife's XP computer is to update the AVG, the spybot, the Adaware, the Windows and all the other associated Windows crap. Well, early Friday morning I decided to do a yum update on my Kernel. It went well, I rebooted and the computer started successfully. I preceeded to get some work done. Everything went great until I tried to get back online with my dial up modem. No go. So I started the config routine. No matter what I did it would not recognize the modem. I tried everything. As the day wore on, and I got further behind in my work, I started getting frustrated. I even tried booting to the earlier Kernel. Darn it all anyway, guess I need to install another Kernel, but without internet access what can I do? Well, I have been wanting to do a fresh install of FC4 anyway, I wanted to partition a little differently and I also wanted to loose a lot of the excess baggage I had installed the first time round (I did the full install). But in the meantime I had a church bulletin to produce, a few reports I had to get out by Monday and some online correspondence that needed my immediate attention. And I had to be online for all this. So I booted up my wife's XP computer. Man, I was lost! Now, at one time I was a Windows power user. I know my way around that OS and much of the software better than 75% of people. But I was actually lost! MS Word sucks after using OpenOffice.Org for months. I hate Powerpoint. I couldnt find anything I needed. Everything I did took twice as long. Even though the Windows PC also uses Firefox it is just...different. Well, I finally did get all my work done. I did a fresh install of FC4 and got this PC back to where it was (thank God I did have a Home partition already installed). My modem works flawlessly again. I am just so happy to be back together with my beloved FC4. And I came out of this with a new perspective. I really do HATE WINDOWS!

[Thetargos]

Err... For reference, when your modem stops working (if it is a hardware modem), check dmesg to see the actual serial device it is using (ttyS?), link /dev/modem to that ttyS? and you should be fine ;)

[JN4OldSchool]

Err... For reference, when your modem stops working (if it is a hardware modem), check dmesg to see the actual serial device it is using (ttyS?), link /dev/modem to that ttyS? and you should be fine ;)
yeah ttyS14, and I did link through the Network Device Control GUI. No ports would work. Didnt know how to approach this through the CLI. I am sure it was a stupid simple problem, but you know how it is when you NEED to get stuff done. I hope next time round I have a little time to fool with it and maybe learn something. But of all the things to lose, internet access sure is scary.

[mexicoshanty]

I reckon linux is buggier than windows, i come across more bugs when using linux than windows. But i still continue to love it. I like it's customizability and once it's running properly it will continue to run forever. Unlike windows that sometimes randomly deceides to **** it's self.

[Thetargos]

yeah ttyS14, and I did link through the Network Device Control GUI. No ports would work. Didnt know how to approach this through the CLI. I am sure it was a stupid simple problem, but you know how it is when you NEED to get stuff done. I hope next time round I have a little time to fool with it and maybe learn something. But of all the things to lose, internet access sure is scary.
Yes, I know what you mean...

And absolutely, the thought of losing Internet access is indeed quite SCARY.

[erroneus]

JN4OldSchool makes an interesting point whether intentionally or not. He simply got accustomed to a way of doing things in a particular way with particular software. Trying to move to another presented him with the problem and discomfort of rewiring his brain to work in the environment. That's generally the problem of getting people away from windows. The reality is that it works both ways, just not so often.

[JN4OldSchool]

JN4OldSchool makes an interesting point whether intentionally or not. He simply got accustomed to a way of doing things in a particular way with particular software. Trying to move to another presented him with the problem and discomfort of rewiring his brain to work in the environment. That's generally the problem of getting people away from windows. The reality is that it works both ways, just not so often.
Lol, you make me feel like a lab rat! But absoloutly true. I had just grown accustomed to FC4. But I will tell you, the Windows GUI is cheesy. I was using Windowsblinds, but removed it for my wife. I hate the stock Windows graphics, even with the classic menu. I hate where things are kept. I hate the redundancy of Windows software, the fact that you can do the same task in 10 different ways. I hate the bundled approach to software. My word processor only needs to write documents, not draw pictures, burn CD's, play MP3's or anything else. I have other software that preforms all these other tasks. And I also hate trying to import documents between programs in Windows. I dont know if it's my imagination but it also seems Windows is a tad bit slower than Linux, even with the full 7 gig FC4 installed. The hardware is fairly equal, but FC4 just thumps away where Windows sits and "thinks." I dont want to go on a rampage against XP, it is a great OS for the majority of people who just dont know any better. I guess I just learned better in my 6 months of FC4.

[OberonKenObi]

Hello people.
Dont hate/love/like either of the profered HAL's.
I use Windows XP for games (well one game EverQuest, bloody DirectX) and i use it to write letters, sometimes. i use it to send emails again sometimes. it is a new (to me lol) 2.4 P4 512 ram 4 HDD. does all i need. nice.
FC4 does same emails, write letters, web (php4) programming etc etc etc. it works. simple. they both work. now here is the kicker, its a P3 450 256 ram. ive had this computer since win98se.
Now ive not tried, but i seriously doubt that WinXP would run anywhere near good at all. Before anyone says must run like a snail in molassas, try it for yourself. how fast do you *really* need that umpteenth window to open? And this is not even using one of the lightweight window managers, i use Gnome (x.x?, dont get technical with me young man!) i think it may even run faster with one of those. till i sort that out ill stay as i am.

One more note, i did a yum update recently. so i bit the bullet, it took ages (im a "if it aint broke, dont fix it" sort of guy) 268 updates success! yippee
--EDIT lmao i r click the top bar -- customize menu -- icons and text. please disregard the following. Feels a bit dumb now actually
-- end EDIT
It broke firefox, a bit, Oh my you say! the descriptions of the buttons have disappeared at the top ( stop +refresh + forward/back)
Boo whoo, at least it didnt open up my box to security vulnerability 2xxxxxx (see 654321KB here for more info) that security patch 3xxxxxx (see 123456KB here for more info) was supposed to fix. as has been known to happen in "other" OS's.
F5 = refresh the others i can use hit/miss till someone smarter than me sorts it. have looked here but not to any great extent, its no biggie.

So, i dont hate anything. But i know that i will not *buy* another version of a HAL when my computer gets old a tired and no longer can keep pace. Dunno about you, but i write letters, write (simple) php driven web pages, email and hang out in chat rooms. Do I need more? And, I may even learn something new and be able to enlighten someone else in the same situation as me.

Cheers