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Ada
20th June 2005, 09:26 PM
I came to the forum not so long time ago but since that time I have already disappointed in the forum. Sorry! Do not want to hurt anyone.
Why? Because every day I see 1000000 topics with the same problems and questions - again and again. Looks like people can not use search! And 70% of all questions are just stupid - people ask them because they are too lazy (or whatever) to read a manual.
From other side I still did not have any answer to my question about Kylix (probably because it's not so trivial). I was sure that on this forum I would have an answer by guarantee. But..not everything so nice as I thought.
What do I suggest? Just want to ask everyone (I mean newbies) to use search! It's not that difficult or at least read Linux output. Also moderators should pay more attention to this kind of questions.
Sure it's just my opinion and you could be disagree.

bytesniper
20th June 2005, 10:06 PM
Because every day I see 1000000 topics with the same problems and questions - again and again. Looks like people can not use search! And 70% of all questions are just stupid <snip> Stupid to whom? Only to those that already know the anwers perhaps. <snip>people ask them because they are too lazy (or whatever) to read a manual. i do agree with this, to a certain degree. but also keep in mind just about everyone who seeks help here has come from (or is still using) windows and the vast majority of the time windows users don't have to spend time searching for answers. they have (usually) free tech support from their equipment manufacturers, software companies, isp's, and microsoft becuase they paid for the product. I'm not saying my any means that this applies to everyone, by the way.

From other side I still did not have any answer to my question about Kylix (probably because it's not so trivial) yeah.. funny thing... i've posted well over 600 items since i registered here and only 2 of those items have been a question, or asking for assistance. how many replies did i get? none. zero. but here's the thing, i realise i am using free, publicly supported software. the expectation for someone to solve all my problems is non-existant. when i post a question it's more of a "i wonder if anyone else has had this problem and already knows an answer becuase i can't find it" rather than a "this software doesnt work how i think it should and someone needs to tell me how to fix it, or fix it for me". If anone wants that expectation then they can exchange monitary substance for support. I donate my time here, such as it is, and therefor feel i have the right to pick and choose which issues i involve myself in. at work, where i get paid to do pretty much the same thing, i am so inclined to take any problem anyone asks me about and follow it through to a resolution.

What do I suggest? Just want to ask everyone (I mean newbies) to use search! It's not that difficult or at least read Linux output dont we all :D

Also moderators should pay more attention to this kind of questions. i count 15 moderators (community managers & admins) just quickly looking at the member list. This forum gets thousand upon thosands of posts every week. I think for as busy as this forum is, and taking into account that everyone is is doing this for free, that they are doing a fine job.

as well, you may disagree, but this is my opinion :)

Shakes
20th June 2005, 10:34 PM
I'll tell you what makes searching hard, is that it doesn't seem to search in the title of the thread, when in fact that is sometimes the most important part for finding an appropriate thread. You searhc for something and you are returned tons of threads that don't seem relevant. If the search worked better, I think this problem would exist less.

bytesniper
20th June 2005, 10:39 PM
if you click on search and the choose advanced search there are many options including search entire post (title and body) or search only by title (excluding body) and you can refine it further from there by limiting to a particular poster, or thread starter.. and more. if you just click on search and use the little dropdown box then it uses default settings which is to search title and body and yes, you are going to get a lot of stuff thats irrelevant. To be honest of all the forums i have used this one actually has some of the best search options i've seen.

Shakes
20th June 2005, 10:46 PM
Ok sorry. I guess it doesn't seem like it's searching the title when it is because it doesn't add enough weight to the title. The title is the most important part for identifying relevant threads. For instance, try searching for "linux laptop". The first thread with a title containing that is well down the list. I have just realised why. It's doing it with most recent first. NOOOOO. The most relevant thread has nothing to do with when it was posted. I always use the quick search facility and have only just realised that is how it is sorting them. Clearly newbies are gonna do a search like me and not find the most relevant threads. I would suggest the search link sorts by relevance as oppose to date.

Ug
21st June 2005, 08:26 AM
However, sorting by Relevancy by default isn't such a great idea. As is we have over 4 different editions for Fedora Core (FC1, FC2, etc), and we have threads for all of these in the forum. So you may have an FC2 issue, and search for something by relevancy, only to find a solution which will not work because of subsequent changes in the distribution.

Sorting by last posting date, allows for more recent ideas to come to the surface. Its not perfect, but if you really want something your likely to use the advanced search.

Shakes
21st June 2005, 02:06 PM
I don't really agree. You have used the example of an FC2 problem. But if I search for the problem and it sorts by date, then it will display the most recent first, which are more likely to be related to newer distributions. I know that they may not be, but it is more likely. It just makes more sense to me to sort by relevevancy as default. Perhaps a poll would be a good idea?

dnar
21st June 2005, 02:29 PM
This is the reason I suggested this http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=60236

I like the new Wiki, I now feel thats the best tool for gathering and summarizing common distro related issues into one spot.

On the Matrox support forum, they ended up putting a banner message at the top of each page stating your request for help MUST contain a copy of your current xorg.conf and /var/log/Xorg.0.log. Posts without this info to begin with are met with "Please supply these files" and thats all.

Why dont we have a link to the Wiki/list of solutions at the top of this forum, kind of a "Start here First"

Another thing, I find it advantagous to put [FC3] or [FC4] at the start of thread titles as that narrows the release down right away.

I don't recall, it's a while since I was a moderator on a Vbullitin forum, I know you can split threads but can you join them? It may be handy to join similar threads together.

One last thing, another forum I assist at we modify the subject line appending [solved] to the thread title once a problem has been solved for the original poster. Helps with searching and also moderation of a busy board. Unfortunately for vBullitin the thread starter can not modify the thread title, only a moderator. Thats one thing I like about Invision Power Board. Anyways, thats something moderators here can do.

dnar
21st June 2005, 02:36 PM
One more thing, I wonder if it would help re-structuing the sub-forums here? Something like http://www.ubuntuforums.org/ is what I am thinking. A definite section for each release and also dev.

mellis95
21st June 2005, 02:58 PM
I am fairly new to Linux (2 1/2 months) and on many of the questions that I have asked here, I first search Google and then use the search tool here. The problem is finding a problem that is as unique as mine. With so many different distributions and then different versions within each distribution, almost every situation is unique in some way. Starting out as a newbie, sometimes it is hard to adapt other answers to fit my needs without some additional help. I don't think there is any way around this. I try my best to find the answer before creating a new post, but many times I just can't find it.

I greatly appreciate every answer that I get on this forum and the more I learn, the more I hope to contribute, but I am not going to learn if I don't ask.

Sorry to be a bother to you,

Firewing1
21st June 2005, 03:03 PM
I agree yet disagree with all said here. Yes, true, not many tough problems are solved, and many others could be solved by reading a manual, but cmon, ppl do this for free. Even I, I've posted about 10 issues in Linux and got no replies:
1) Closing ports -- Figured it out evenutally
2) Volume names in GNOME -- Still no replies., just got the fix 10 min ago. Fooled around with partition disk labels, and got it working
3) mlabel syntax -- Got it eventually
4) USB problems -- Got it figured out on my own
And many more..
I personally think there needs to be a system where you get "New Posts", and "New Threads" becaue Ipost a topic, and it just falls down the list as it's drowned in other posts. At one point my thread was off the list and it had only 9 wiews... I must have been on the "new Posts" window for what, 10 min?
Firewing1

dnar
21st June 2005, 04:07 PM
I agree yet disagree with all said here. Yes, true, not many tough problems are solved, and many others could be solved by reading a manual, but cmon, ppl do this for free. Even I, I've posted about 10 issues in Linux and got no replies:
1) Closing ports -- Figured it out evenutally
2) Volume names in GNOME -- Still no replies., just got the fix 10 min ago. Fooled around with partition disk labels, and got it working
3) mlabel syntax -- Got it eventually
4) USB problems -- Got it figured out on my own
And many more..
I personally think there needs to be a system where you get "New Posts", and "New Threads" becaue Ipost a topic, and it just falls down the list as it's drowned in other posts. At one point my thread was off the list and it had only 9 wiews... I must have been on the "new Posts" window for what, 10 min?
Firewing1
Sorry to hear your issues did not get the attention they deserve. I try hard when I have the time (currently I have plenty since quiting my job) to help as many people as I can. True, often it's self help, especially for us more experienced Linux user.

I am glad you sorted some stuff on your own, the reason is thats a great way to learn, it forces you to dig under the bonnet so to speak and also it should give you a great sense of acheivement.

On the new posts window for 10 minutes? Is that all. Seriously, sometimes this place is quiet. At the moment, most guys are heads down, bums up tinkering with a new release. That in itself means less people are sitting back with time to read each and every post. Either set you profile for "instant email notification" or manually subscribe to your own thread ("thread tools" at the top of each thread. Once someone has replied you will receive an email.

If you don't receice a reply after 24 hours, it's no big sin to post a "bump" post in your thread to push it back to the top, but don't do this more than once a day please.

Do you have any outstanding issues that I can help you with?

Ada
21st June 2005, 05:24 PM
First want to point to Architectures & Platforms structure in http://forums.gentoo.org/ That's really very comfortable! I also suppport an idea about forum restructuring - it should help to accelerate the search and bring a bit order into the forum .

Some persons use google and forum search before they ask their questions (I am not talking about these persons, I am really glad to answer to their questions) BUT majority (I am talking about them) dont do it! I think it would be truth to say that about 95% of them are windows migrators and they are too lazy to search around a bit - what for if they could have all information on a golden plate in some minutes! I call it 'parasitism'! I really think if you dont want to pay for OS&SW you should spend some effort in order to have some welfare. Is not it so? Windows is so clicky-bunty it makes people stupid! You should only click around and maybe one time in half a year call MS support. That's the problem. And due to these annoying questions many people (who really could help) just do not want to answer again and again to the same very simple questions (an answer to which one could find without spending much effort). Also number of threads are growing up and search is becoming more and more difficault and long.

dnar
21st June 2005, 05:29 PM
Agreed, and in the end we simply end up with replies pointing to other threads that contain the golden goose answers. Messy.

At least I don't see many (if any) RTFM replies!!!

Firewing1
21st June 2005, 05:52 PM
dnar,
Thanks... You've already solved 2 of my problems, and the big problem I had I sorted out this moring, ironicly! Thanks anyway, though...
Firewing1

dnar
21st June 2005, 06:06 PM
dnar,
Thanks... You've already solved 2 of my problems, and the big problem I had I sorted out this moring, ironicly! Thanks anyway, though...
Firewing1
It's a pleasure. What problems did I help you solve? lol?

bitrain
21st June 2005, 06:21 PM
At least I don't see many (if any) RTFM replies!!!We are to friendly here :)

I think the idea of a seperate place for each core is good.
There needs to be a general place for frequently asked questions, like fedorafaq.org is, but it must be here on the forum (in my opinion) and is must be sticky in a clearly visible place (frontpage?). Many problems come by with the answer in fedorafaq.org or problems that are answered very, very often.
So we should make a thread which contains mplayer, xmms, rt2500 wireless (just made a howto this week, comes every week a few times) and more of that common stuff. So that the real problems can have their own threads and stay longer visible in the new posts list.

dnar
21st June 2005, 06:24 PM
I agree. I am really keen to help out here with solutions in the Wiki for example. I posted earlier stating my willingness to help with the Wiki.

bitrain
21st June 2005, 06:32 PM
Maybe a list with the most recent version of some packages is usefull too, many people ask which packages they should use, so maybe whe can make a list with the most frequently used packages and the place or version people should download.

I willing to help with the wiki too, just let me know where to go if it is somewhere. :)

Firewing1
21st June 2005, 06:36 PM
dnar,
you solved my up2date problem... It now updates, it's just the applet still won't show anything... No matterm up2date still works :)
Firewing2

snoze
21st June 2005, 06:38 PM
We are to friendly here

type up2date and be regular here, just kidding :D

dnar
21st June 2005, 06:44 PM
dnar,
you solved my up2date problem... It now updates, it's just the applet still won't show anything... No matterm up2date still works :)
Firewing2
Be aware, the applet may be delayed in showing updates due to delays updating the mirrors.

kalpana
22nd June 2005, 07:56 AM
I mail one thread on my mail address for saving

i found following line below message , can anyone explain about it , that why fedora like big group write this type of line below email?


'FedoraForum.org takes no responsibility for messages sent through its system.'

ilja
22nd June 2005, 08:01 AM
It's a vbulletin-default message. It's the software, whoch adds this line automaticaly.

Zigzagcom
22nd June 2005, 08:04 AM
If someone mails you and is abusive, that is not the forums fault. So there has to be a disclaimer, stating that they cannot be responsible for what anyone might say. This is a public venue.

kalpana
22nd June 2005, 08:39 AM
okay ilja
I know it is automated line ,

anyways now I clear to add this type of line added in mail.

But according to me it is not so much important to add this line below mail because system is never resposible for anything , specially when it is open source :)

ilja
22nd June 2005, 08:41 AM
It's meant the way Zigzagcom explained it.

dnar
22nd June 2005, 08:52 AM
okay ilja
I know it is automated line ,

anyways now I clear to add this type of line added in mail.

But according to me it is not so much important to add this line below mail because system is never resposible for anything , specially when it is open source :)
Why does this bother you? Just ignore it!

kalpana
22nd June 2005, 09:24 AM
Okay fine. Ignored :)

snoze
22nd June 2005, 04:59 PM
it is called fedora publicity stunt, like yahoo and msn.. but even though it is better.. atleast there is no advt.

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