The Fedora Guide - http://www.evolutioncolt.com/fedoraguide

[sebgate20]

Hi All

As part of my quest with Evolution Colt, I have started to set up the 'Fedora Guide' to provide installation advice on installation items such as Java, Flash, Realplayer, Mono etc.. on Fedora Core 4.

You can find the guide at http://www.evolutioncolt.com/fedoraguide . If this is successful, I will then buy the domain http://www.fedoraguide.org but only if there is enough interest.

If you'd like to help, you can leave article ideas or suggestions about the website below. Could a Moderator make this a Sticky? Some elements are taken from the Fedora FAQ and some from Ubuntu Guide. The guide is in very early stages and I hope to make it as comprehensive as possbile.

Hope you like it

Seb

[jsimmonds]

Looks good, I never knew you can download files with wget

[mnisay]

fedoraguides.org , mmm...sounds like you can cover more FC issues, packages, troubleshooting and installations and
perhaps not only general FAQs as to be different from fedorafaq.com.

how about a rewrite of the old www.tldp.org ?

just a passing though...goodluck!

[sebgate20]

dnar: Fedora FAQ is answer Frequently Asked Questions, not explaining to the user how to set up programmes, services, etc... Yes, the tips and tricks section may overlap but I can both see them working together well. I want to do topics such as Apache web server, MySQL, Postfix as well as applications like VMWare, ndiswrapper and Beagle.

mnisay: Interesting idea but I'll think I will stick to Fedora Guide ;-)

jsimmonds: You learn something new everyday!

Seb

[foolish]

dnar: Fedora FAQ is answer Frequently Asked Questions, not explaining to the user how to set up programmes, services, etc... Yes, the tips and tricks section may overlap but I can both see them working together well. I want to do topics such as Apache web server, MySQL, Postfix as well as applications like VMWare, ndiswrapper and Beagle.

mnisay: Interesting idea but I'll think I will stick to Fedora Guide ;-)

jsimmonds: You learn something new everyday!

Seb

I do applaude your intentions, but you're part of a growing trend in the Fedora Community that is keeping us from reaching our full potential. If you want to do something for the Fedora community, and it's clear you do, first look at what's already out there. If nothing that's out there fits what you want to do, contact the people already doing stuff, talk to them. We can do so much better if we work together as a community.

Again, I do love you for your time and effort, but we can be more effective, we can be even better. If you'd like to discuss this further, please do send me an email.

[Iram Hernandez]

I used http://fedorafaq.org and found it to be extremely useful when I was first using fedora. After a while I switched to ubuntu and found http://ubuntuguide.org/ to be very useful. I thought it was well organized and had really great write ups on many topics. I think I know what seb means when he says he wants to makes something that is a hybrid of fedorafaq and ubuntuguide. I for one would love to see something like that. What would be even better is if it was a wiki so that little tweaks could be made.

I do see foolish's point about not duplicating work. Besides, fedorafaq has been around for a little while so why stir thigs up. I would be nice to see fedorafaq have more content and also to see a fedora core 4 page. And like I said, wiki-fying the thing would make it more of a collaborative project.

[Jman]

Moved to Links.

Very good looking page.

[jtang613]

Certainly good intentions, and a nice looking site. But this seems to overlap many of the topics and goals of:
http://www.fedorafaq.org/
http://www.fedoranews.org/
http://www.fedorausers.org/
http://www.fedoraforum.org/
http://www.fedoraproject.org/

I think what we need is more focus. Too many sites diffuse the information and make the information gathering process less efficient. Why not collaborate with FedoraNews.org, become a contributor.

m2c,
Jason

[flange]

I do applaude your intentions, but you're part of a growing trend in the Fedora Community that is keeping us from reaching our full potential. If you want to do something for the Fedora community, and it's clear you do, first look at what's already out there. If nothing that's out there fits what you want to do, contact the people already doing stuff, talk to them. We can do so much better if we work together as a community.

Again, I do love you for your time and effort, but we can be more effective, we can be even better. If you'd like to discuss this further, please do send me an email.

If Evolution Colt was satisfied with what is out there, he/she wouldn't be doing the Fedora Guide. No offense to the Fedora FAQ maintainers, but anyone who's seen the Ubuntu Guide and thinks the Fedora FAQ is on par for Fedora newbies is nuts.

The Ubuntu Guide is *the* thing that got me to dump FC3 for Ubuntu several months ago. The Fedora community should be asking themselves why, with supposedly so many different resources available to help new Fedora users, did Ubuntu become so incredibly popular so fast. It's not just apt-get.

I just came back to Fedora yesterday to try out FC4. It's absolutely beautiful. At first glance, FC4 seems far more polished than Ubuntu. The problem is that now that I'm on FC4, I feel like I'm going at this alone. There's no community trying to do the same things I'm doing to help me out. So far, Evo's Guide is the best thing out there for getting the most out of FC4, and it's still in its infancy.

I feel that if the people that are responsible for the Fedora FAQ had any interest in making it a capable and relevant resource for Fedora users, something would've happened by now. You know that a lot of people are anxious to try out FC4. Why is it that 9 days after FC4's release, not one update has been posted to the FAQ reflecting that release?

I apologize if this post seems a little nasty, but I'm frustrated that Evolution Colt has put time into doing something amazing for the Fedora community, and most of the responses to it are negative. People, Evo's not reinventing the wheel here. Fedora simply does not have anything like the Fedora Guide right now, and I applaud Evo for the work he/she's doing.

On a side note, thanks for the Mono instructions, Evo. They worked great.

[flange]

Sorry, I just realized that his name isn't Evolution Colt, it's Seb.

Anyway, thanks again, Seb. The Guide is looking great. Please keep it going. I wish I could help you, but I don't know that much. I'm the linux user that your Guide helps out the most.

[totaka]

I think collaborating to write together would be a good idea.
We now have Stan Finley's Fedora Core 4 Linux Installation guide,
FedoraFAQ and now Mr Seb's guide, aiming for same goal. It is great to see
so many people trying to contribute Fedora, but competition for writing same
thing may turn to some site maintener to stop continueing the suppot. The maintener of
Ubuntu Starter Guide was writing excellent Fedora Installation guide for FC2.
If there was a call for collaboration, then he might have still been writing great guide for Fedora...

BTW, if you are writing Ubuntu Starter Guide style of guide, then why not use the original?
UUSG is GPL and many of their contents can be used for Fedora with very litlle or no modification.

I'm a translator of FedoraFAQ, FedoraNEWS and Unofficial Ubuntu Starter Guide, so my opinion may be biased though.

[mnisay]

totaka: agreed with that.

keeping it alive here...

[sebgate20]

I've updated Fedora Guide today with quite a few new extras. It now has a fedoraguide.repo which includes many bits like Dag Wieers, Dries, Livna, nRPMS etc... as in the style of Fedora FAQ. New topics also include GNOME Menu Editor, Beagle, XMMS, MPlayer etc..

Again, take a look at http://www.evolutioncolt.com/fedoraguide and let me know how you get on!

Seb

[RahulSundaram]

I've updated Fedora Guide today with quite a few new extras. It now has a fedoraguide.repo which includes many bits like Dag Wieers, Dries, Livna, nRPMS etc... as in the style of Fedora FAQ. New topics also include GNOME Menu Editor, Beagle, XMMS, MPlayer etc..

Again, take a look at http://www.evolutioncolt.com/fedoraguide and let me know how you get on!

Seb


Seb,

I appreciate the work being done on this but I would echo some others and would suggest you work with any of the existing websites and get your content merged there. Splitting up resources this way makes it harder for users to access the information available. If they have to google this up all the time then it isnt reaching the full potential

Rahul
Red Hat Inc

[foolish]

If Evolution Colt was satisfied with what is out there, he/she wouldn't be doing the Fedora Guide. No offense to the Fedora FAQ maintainers, but anyone who's seen the Ubuntu Guide and thinks the Fedora FAQ is on par for Fedora newbies is nuts.


This is all fine and dandy bud, but you're missing my point. If you're not happy with an excisting resource. Contact whoever maintains that resource and try to work with them to improve it. Collaboration instead of competition. It's the branching and separation that makes the fedora community less than it could be.

[Zigzagcom]

Well, if Seb is doing a good job, shouldn't he be invited, asked to contribute, by those that run the sites. His content is out there, open to peer review. Gee, somebody invite him...it like harvesting the resources. Recruiting...collecting the minds...

[Finalzone]

Looks good. I agree with other people that you should merge your works with fedorafaq.org website.

[Jessehk]

Looks great, and in the newbie's opinion, better then fedorafaq. Your limewire installation worked flawlessly.
Thanks for all the hard work Seb! :)

[sebgate20]

As I've said many times before on #fedora, I emailed the owner of Fedora FAQ suggesting we collaborate (about 2 weeks ago) and I have had no reply so I am doing it myself. I also think that my guide:

a.) Follows a more ordered theme (i.e. The questions are the same style)
b.) Is more up to date

Please, don't keep saying it should be mergered. I understand what you are saying but I am happy with the way the site is developing. I am now looking at buying a domain for it!

[nandowong]

thanks sebgate20

[flange]

As I've said many times before on #fedora, I emailed the owner of Fedora FAQ suggesting we collaborate (about 2 weeks ago) and I have had no reply so I am doing it myself. I also think that my guide:

a.) Follows a more ordered theme (i.e. The questions are the same style)
b.) Is more up to date

Please, don't keep saying it should be mergered. I understand what you are saying but I am happy with the way the site is developing. I am now looking at buying a domain for it!

I agree. Please don't "merge" it with Fedora FAQ. The FAQ questions are poorly organized and poorly worded. Some of the information is good, but your Fedora guide is already far superior and follows a much more sane format.

[flange]

This is all fine and dandy bud, but you're missing my point. If you're not happy with an excisting resource. Contact whoever maintains that resource and try to work with them to improve it. Collaboration instead of competition. It's the branching and separation that makes the fedora community less than it could be.

I don't agree with this. Collaboration is good for the Fedora community, but competition is good, too.

Allowing someone to start fresh gives them the chance to try things their own way. There are no restrictions due to existing infrastructure. This new idea will compete with the status quo for awhile, and then eventually, the inferior one dies out. After some time, a new idea emerges again, and the cycle repeats itself.

Besides, this competition between the FAQ and the "Guide" has actually already happened. It started when the Ubuntu Guide was formed. After several months of excitement and hard work, the Ubuntu Guide is now far, far superior to the Fedora FAQ. Seb realizes that, and is now trying to bring the Guide idea into Fedora.

The FAQ is dead. If it wasn't, it would've tried to compete back when the Ubuntu Guide was getting started. Instead, it STILL leads off with question #1: "What is this Fedora Core 3 thing?" The FAQ maintainer doesn't seem to care anymore. Thankfully, Seb does.

[jiyuu0]

i used to own:
http://fedoraguide.org
*currently not (expired domain)

you can still find the old fedora2 guide here:
http://kitech.com.my/fc2/fc2beginnersguide.html
*this is the early version of ubuntuguide :)

i've had the some bad experience with fedora guide :( anyway, sebgate20 keep up the good work and just ignore all those that give uncool inputs.

[Nighthawk4]

Thanks Seb, your instructions got my Firefox and Java working together. :)

Much appreciated.

[ThijsH]

As I've said many times before on #fedora, I emailed the owner of Fedora FAQ suggesting we collaborate (about 2 weeks ago) and I have had no reply so I am doing it myself. I also think that my guide:


Maybe he's on holiday. I have emailed him +/- 2 weeks ago about my Dutch translation of the FedoraFAQ. I also didn't get an answer.

[Nighthawk4]

One question Seb:

Your instructions for installing the iTunes software (PyMusique) look very similar to those for installing the BitTorrent Client and GUI. Is this a mistake please?

A couple of requests:

1. Could you please advise on getting gnome-pilot to work. It seems to quit unexpectedly every time, which is starting to make the error message inaccurate. However, the fact that I am now expecting it to quit does not make it any less annoying. :rolleyes:

2. Does PyMusique replace gtkPod? If not, could you please advise on getting that to work. I tried that with FC3, but could not get it to see the iPod. I think there was an issue with USB and the Kernel on FC3, as I could not get my USB Flashdrives to work either.

Thanks.

[Avatraxiom]

It's not so much that I'm on vacation as that I've had a bit of financial trouble and I'm incredibly busy. :-) However, I do promise that I intend to update the FAQ for Fedora Core 4 very soon! :-) I haven't forgotten any of you. :-) I did get your email, Seb. I appreciated it, and I will get back to you. :-)

-Max

[foolish]

I fail to see how competition is good for documentation. Comeptition between distros is great, competition between desktop environments is great. But competing over documentation will only lead to the user getting less than he or she chould if we collaborated.

As for Max not being available, that is true. Fedorafaq.org is obviously flawed and is really in the need for a change in how it is managed. We know this. Your emails have been recieved by Max, but he has been unable to respond because he's been busy with his day job and life. We're all doing this in our spare time and these things happen. Sadly fedorafaq.org is very much dependant on Max at the moment, one of it's major flaws, and that is the reason it has not been updated.

[totaka]

I think we need an communication channel to discuss how we can collaborate each community site(like this thread). FedoraFAQ and FedoraGuide can discussing what they are going to write, so no competition occures on what they are going to write. (Or maybe they could merge, if both prefer) I also think it is necessary for both project to become more open, so one person's personal problem won't affect entire Fedora community and people can contribute document on both project based on their goals.

[flange]

I fail to see how competition is good for documentation. Comeptition between distros is great, competition between desktop environments is great. But competing over documentation will only lead to the user getting less than he or she chould if we collaborated.

As for Max not being available, that is true. Fedorafaq.org is obviously flawed and is really in the need for a change in how it is managed. We know this. Your emails have been recieved by Max, but he has been unable to respond because he's been busy with his day job and life. We're all doing this in our spare time and these things happen. Sadly fedorafaq.org is very much dependant on Max at the moment, one of it's major flaws, and that is the reason it has not been updated.

I'm looking at it from the perspective that eventually one idea wins out. Surely you would agree with me that there are different styles of documentation? Blah. I don't want to argue this with you anymore.

At any rate, I might have been too harsh on the FAQ maintainer at first. I don't want to seem unappreciative to anyone who is volunteering his time to make my life easier. Foolish, Max, Seb, and anyone else who has given personal time to make Fedora Core easier for me to use, thanks.

I do much prefer the Ubuntu Guide (and now Fedora Guide, too) to the Fedora FAQ. I really think the Ubuntu community has set the standard for the documentation side of desktop Linux, and there are a lot of good ideas that can be brought over to Fedora, or even improved upon.

What frustrates me about the Fedora community that I've seen is that when someone tries to do something that's unfamiliar or out of step with the standard way, everyone jumps in like a pack of wolves to tear it apart. You guys should take a look around at other distros. See what other people are doing, and how you might piggyback on their ideas to make your own community better. The Ubuntu Guide did not come out of nowhere last week or so. It's been around for at least 6 months now, and has been well ahead of anything in the Fedora community for most of that time. Why wasn't any other distro doing something like that a long time ago? Don't be so quick to tell people to get back in line. Sometimes you might squash the enthusiasm of someone that is about to do something great.

(And no, I'm not missing the point. Collaboration is great when everyone is on the same page. That's not what we have here, at least not yet. Seb knows the format and direction of his guide is not the same as the current FAQ. If Max and Seb agree to go the same direction, great. If not, a big thanks to both of them anyway.)

[c4raku]

a little over a month ago i nuked windows and switched to fedora. in that time its been about an even split between frdorafaq, this forum, and fedoraguide since it showed up. so far i have been able to get all the help i need. but it has been a PIA having to search around between them.

Seems to me the obvious soultion is to merge faq, guide, and even the how-to threads here into 1 open wiki. maybe have it morrored on both the faq and guide names. If this is supposed to be a community based distro, then the community needs a way to contribute and not be left waiting when life happens to a maintainer. this forum meets part of that but sometimes things move so fast a thread is bumped into page 2 obscurity before anyone can reply. something static, yet expandable is needed.

[sebgate20]

Hi All

Just an update to the status of Fedora Guide. We are now up to version 0.26 and more Q&As have been added. I have also added a Changelog page so you can find out the changes that have been made to each version. I would like to know what people would like added to Fedora Guide. What topics? Leave them here or PM me.

Again, you can find it at http://evolutioncolt.com/fedoraguide/

Thanks

Seb

[92b16vx]

One note, on the getting Java applications to work portion of the Java install, I found that I needed to enter
/usr/bin/alternatives --install /usr/bin/java java /opt/jre1.5.0_04/bin/java 2
instead of justalternatives --install /usr/bin/java java /opt/jre1.5.0_04/bin/java 2

Maybe it could be added as a note, maybe it was just on mine, but you never know.

[Nighthawk4]

There seems to be a problem with the Dag repository, unless I am typing it incorrectly. I did try copying and pasting it, but I still get the error.

$ sudo rpm --import http://dag.wieers.com/packages/RPM-GPG-KEY.dag.txt
$ sudo yum -y --enablerepo=dag install gtkpod
Error getting repository data for dag, repository not found

[tejas]

Why not make the fedorafaq a mediawiki page like fedoraNEWS

this way, everyone can contribute

perhaps have a system where anyone can change the page, but the page, rather than changing on the spot, is sent to an editor who verifies that the content is not malicious and then approves/disaproves the changes?

[flange]

How about installing numlockx to enable Gnome to default to having Numlock turned on? Compiling from source wasn't too hard, or if someone can build an RPM, that would be even easier.

[foolish]

Why not make the fedorafaq a mediawiki page like fedoraNEWS

this way, everyone can contribute

perhaps have a system where anyone can change the page, but the page, rather than changing on the spot, is sent to an editor who verifies that the content is not malicious and then approves/disaproves the changes?

I'm trying, but failing miserably, not to sound like an **** here, but everyone aren't qualified to give advice. There are too many out there spreading the "works for me" solutions that in some cases are really, really bad. The amount of maintaince a open wiki would require makes it unrealistic in my opinion. The people I know could do it are all busy doing other stuff, like managing this forum or working on development. It's my grim view that an open wiki would only lead to low quality documentation.

Having a controlled environment where people can contribute freely only after proving their worth will be more benefitial in my oppinion. Your ideas on having an editor approve of the questions first is a good idea.

[flange]

The amount of maintaince a open wiki would require makes it unrealistic in my opinion. [...] It's my grim view that an open wiki would only lead to low quality documentation.

Having a controlled environment where people can contribute freely only after proving their worth will be more benefitial in my oppinion. Your ideas on having an editor approve of the questions first is a good idea.

I agree completely. Accuracy is far more important than speed in this case.

(And no, you don't sound like a ****.) :)

[tejas]

What/who is evolution colt?

At least put a link from evolutioncolt.com to the guide

[Jessehk]

Just wanted to (again ) express my appreciation for the guide. It has truly helped me accomplish a lot with fedora core ( and allowed me to do things I would not have been able to do before ).

[sebgate20]

Thanks again for the good messages. I have made Fedora Guide a static page so it is eaiser to control and maintain the same style for each question. A Wiki does not have this amount of control.

I have made some more updates today to the guide - mainly typos as well as adding information for installing Development Tools and GNOME Development Tools.

Seb

(Also, if you read the top of the page, you will find a link to Evolution Colt's website)

[flange]

Seb,

Another program I'd like to see on your guide is Monopod. I tried building it from source last night, and even though I have Mono 1.1.8 installed per your guide, Monopod was complaining about Mono dependencies not being met.

Thanks again for all your hard work.

[vishnumrao]

Hey Seb,

Nice work.

I guess since the fedorafaq has not been updated the this evolutioncolt.com page could be renamed as fedorafaq.

Foolish, is it not time the fedorafaq got updated. Most newbies go to the fedorafaq for information and by not updating we are creating hurdles for newbies.

I remember when I started using linux for the first time in my life, fedorafaq was very very helpful to me.

[totaka]

FedoraFAQ has been great and only because Max is currently busy with his personal life doesn't mean he is no longer needed by fedora community.

He cared and helped internationalization of the faq. That's why FedoraFAQ has one of the best up-to-date translations. As a translator of the FAQ, I wish there is some collaboration of the guide and FAQ,
so we don't need to translate same staffs twice. Andd since FedoraFAQ already has translation mailing
list and some translators already, FedoraGuide using FedoraFAQ's asset might be a good idea, if Max and seb don't mind...

[totaka]

I just read Fedora-docs's mailing list and it seems it's going well.
I now understand the situation and fully support it!

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-July/msg00043.html

[bubudiu]

Any downloadable versions? I've got a fedora firefox start page (see my signature) with the selinux docs. If any of you chaps have fc3 related docs i can plug them in as well.

[drs]

soo umm..? what happened to this. I'm getting a 404 at
http://www.evolutioncolt.com/fedoraguide

[sayeeth]

soo umm..? what happened to this. I'm getting a 404 at
http://www.evolutioncolt.com/fedoraguide
The domain name is no longer owned by its previos owner. Go here and you will know why http://www.evolutioncolt.com/

[drs]

The domain name is no longer owned by its previos owner. Go here and you will know why http://www.evolutioncolt.com/

That page speaks of absolutely nothing about what happened to the guide and it certainly seems like the domain is owned by seb (the link to seb's blog is a dead give-away). When I checked the blog, I found that the last mention of the guide is from July 25th (http://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/blog/index.php?paged=12).

[Nezmin2]

I've updated Fedora Guide today with quite a few new extras. It now has a fedoraguide.repo which includes many bits like Dag Wieers, Dries, Livna, nRPMS etc... as in the style of Fedora FAQ. New topics also include GNOME Menu Editor, Beagle, XMMS, MPlayer etc..

Again, take a look at http://www.evolutioncolt.com/fedoraguide and let me know how you get on!

Seb,

I would love to take a look at your guide but your link isn't working. :confused:

[sayeeth]

Gosh! I was kidding! If you get a 404 error that means the page is down. PM the user directly and ask him what happened or comment on his blog. Like how I have. Sitting down there and wondering "Gee, what happened, huh?" won't help anyone.

[Jesus-Franco]

Gosh! I was kidding! If you get a 404 error that means the page is down. PM the user directly and ask him what happened or comment on his blog. Like how I have. Sitting down there and wondering "Gee, what happened, huh?" won't help anyone.

Agreed. I've done my part
http://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/blog/?p=85
:cool:

[Jesus-Franco]

After reading his blog... it seems he now uses Ubuntu. So he won't be supporting his documentation for Fedora anymore. :(

[rehcla]

I completly agree with you! A fedoraguide like ubuntu has it would be great!
Thanks SEBGATE20,

Claus

[smfinley]

I completly agree with you! A fedoraguide like ubuntu has it would be great!See Fedora Core 4 Installation Notes (http://stanton-finley.net/fedora_core_4_installation_notes.html).

[Zigzagcom]

Stanton, the next best item in your installation notes would be a guide for postfix, dovecot, sasl, squirrelmail....but I must say, your notes have made it a pleasure.