View Full Version : What are we doing here?
5th March 2005, 04:22 AM
Yea, it kills me. Redhat has taken all open source software, packaged it all up real nice, stuck a bunch of their logos all over it, and they want to charge you $2499 for it! They then take their product and pack it full of all the bleeding-edge open source software development and emerging technologies that are out there, and make a "free" product called Fedora. The masses then beta-test this all, and softwares that come to fruition, are included in their pay product.
Along comes Whitebox Linux which essentially has taken RHEL and removed all the logos and copyright tidbits, and releases it. There's even updates and errata available to Whitehat, by-passing RHN completely. You then get a product that is exactly like the one Redhat charges an arm and a leg for.
I don't know what you think, but this is all a little crazy, isn't it?
5th March 2005, 04:41 AM
I completely agree with you and it is annoying to see that stuff happening.............................Has anyone tried out the whitebox..........If yes what are your experiences?
5th March 2005, 05:11 AM
I haven't tried Whitebox, but CentOS 4 does the same thing (it's based on RHEL 4). I have installed it and it is nice to know that I can use RHEL 4 RPM's seamlessly on it because these RPM's are quite plentiful. I may give Whitebox a go just out of curiousity :)
5th March 2005, 05:12 AM
Well, I was able to find the RHEL iso's (don't worry, I won't look at the logos), and I've downloaded Whitehat Linux also. I'm gonna install them both, and along with my experience with Fedora, it should make for an interesting comaparison.
5th March 2005, 05:18 AM
Your perspective is a tad bit off methinks.....
Nobody puts a gun to your head and forces you to buy RedHat Linux. It's not about the software, it's about the support. Take your average fortune 1000 company. What's a few dozen licenses at whatever $$$ amount compared to even a few hours of downtime/lost productivity????
It's nothing to them. And their senior management sleeps better at night if they accidentally hired a complete noob to administer their boxes. Help is only a phone call away......
And Fedora? Sure it's bleeding edge, I like it that way. If I bought Suse 9.x, I would almost certainly still be downloading and installing bleeding edge Linux apps from source. (No matter WHERE they came from)
Don't like being out in front???? There's always RedHat 9.0.....or another distro.
Finally, what am I doing here???
Helping people solve their Linux problems. Not just Fedora, LINUX.
Hardware, applications, kernel, tools, noobs, whatever. I don't care, I'm here to help other Linux users to the best of my abilities.
5th March 2005, 06:29 AM
I'm as you, I love Fedora and use it on production servers. I'm curious about RHEL because I've never used it. Is it as disjointed as Fedora is? I mean, is Cyrus-IMAPd integrated into sendmail so you don't have to rebuild the cf files and such as you do in Fedora? Does the FTP server work at first try? Do you get so fed up with SElinux that you just turn the damn thing off?
Redhat does not offer support on Fedora, they just sit back and watch us figure it out for ourselves, document it, and include it in their product. I take back the topic because what we are doing here is offering a free support network that helps Fedora users... but also applies to RHEL. Linux is used by many people, organizations, companies, in many different capacities, and unfortunately aren't listed in Forbes. I'm wonderin' if something like Whitebox Linux might be the better choice, and as stated in their web page, a bridge between RHEL and Fedora.
5th March 2005, 06:58 AM
never mind :)
5th March 2005, 07:00 AM
At the end of the day Red Hat has to pay its engineers and make a profit like a buisness, so yes they charge for RHEL.
If you want a beta Fedora, try a test release, or even better, the Rawhide development branch, which is frequently broken.
The commerical product based on the open source project has been used before, notably with StarOffice and OpenOffice.org.
5th March 2005, 07:23 AM
Redhat has literally dozens of people who choose/package the "best"/"most stable" versions of software to include in their packages. And they stand behind their licenses with 24x7x365 support. Naturally Redhat is not as "bleeding edge" as Fedora. Naturally RedHat pays attention to what works best in Fedora. And yes, RedHat includes some enhancements to their distribution that are not widely available or stable in the rest of the Linux word.
Two of RedHat's features come to mind. Their "Global File System" for NAS/SAN storage, and their support for Oracle products. Both are extremely valuable and important in the high end server/cluster market.
Can you run Oracle on Fedora Core???, sure, but not without some (non-trivial) tweaking. Has RedHat released their GFS to the benefit of the Linux community at no cost???, yes.
Seriously, this forum is about Linux users helping other Linux users. The majority of whom are Fedora Core users.. Does that mean you can't get a "generic"/"brand x" Linux question answered on this forum???, absolutely not!
This forum isn't about bashing one Linux version over another.
It's about helping, it's a virtual community.
I am seriously wondering why you even bother to post such "this distro is better than that distro" junk.
If you find one you like, great!, got a problem with something? ask, and odds are, you will get a helpful answer here, or on another forum, regardless of whether it's Fedora or something else.
It really seems to me as if you have an issue with "RedHat" choosing some of the same packages as "Fedora". Which is kind of a non-sensical point for argument as they BOTH get their kernels from http://www.kernel.org. and they BOTH contribute to the Linux community.
I installed Fedora, but use a kernel from kernel.org, my X is from x.org, I don't even remember where my Gnome came from right now, my Apache is from http://www.apache.org/, (as is my Tomcat, Avalon, James, JetSpeed, Cocoon, Ant, and several other packages).
My PHP, (and Fedora's, and Redhats's) comes from http://www.php.net/.
I only have a few packages installed on my system(s) that are "unique" to RedHat and/or Fedora. Anaconda, and GFS.
EVERY single other package is available directly from the developers who created it.
And you know what?
EVERY single Linux distro does the same thing as RedHat. They pick and choose what THEY think are the best packages. RedHat just goes a little further in their testing and integration (and yes, sales), and they charge a fee for support. Big Deal, you don't want/need support? then use another distro, or "roll your own". I seriously could care less.
Just don't waste time/bandwith/"other's time" ranting. If something breaks? ask a question, I'll see what I can do to help.
PS: you asked a few questions, and now that I am done with my "soap-box" I will reply to them.
Of course RedHat doesn't offer support to Fedora. Fedora is a "community" not a "corporate" project/distro.
Do they communicate back and forth (yes it DOES go both ways). I am certain. Do they both benefit from that relationship? Yes.
Don't like SELinux? Don't understand it? Don't know how to administer it? then DON'T USE IT. (and live with the consequences, if any).
Hey it's your choice, that's what free software and the OSF, GPL, etc are all about.
5th March 2005, 07:54 AM
I dont mind beta testing as long as the system works and it is STABLE enough to use. So far so good....
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