Fedora Core 3 Not good enought for public evaluation

[llinder]

This is a general opinion of Fedora Core and Red Hat developers.

I am a very experienced Unix and "C" user developer. I use RedHat 7.1 for business and it has worked very well once I fixed problems. I have evaluated every version of RedHat and Fedora since and have found the products lacking, and change for change sake unwelcome.

1. Major updates focused on deleted Icons and decorations instead of fixing real problems with things that do not work correctly.

2. There has been an enormous amount of time spent to copy the worst features of Windoze and adding this crap to a good operating system and desktops.

3. Fedora Core is not fit for public release.
I down loaded it and though right or wrong to use it to over lay a RedHat 7.3 on a development system. The video worked but most stuff didn't - I rally didn't expect it to work but didn't expect it to be this bad.

4. Fresh installation of Fedora - No video - used rescue to set runlevel to 3 on boot to see what was going on. It recognized my monitor type and video but driver it installed was in never never land. Doesn't anyone test anything anymore it has worked from RH 5 up to but not on Fedora Core ?

5. Finally convince my brother in law a hard core Windoze person and systems administrator for school to try it. - It would not install no mater what we tried until we used fsck to fix disk. A low level format was performed before the install to make sure it was clean. Fedora Core 3 is not up to installing on a clean disk - how can this be. As a long term Linux user - I have to say I was embarressed.

6. The video experience is typical of problems. File names were changed for some dumb reason - so all books and experience is worthless.

7. The book Fedora Core 3 Unleased book is about worthless - what ever you read of look up in the book is out of date, wrong, or file names have changed. So if you are having problems and it is your only system - not much chance of getting it running with available literature. Try to read help sutf written in HTML with VI.

Linux will never be more than a curisity and will not have a place in the commercial world until the hard core developers take charge and stops the silly stuff.
Example my video didn't work so I can't use a desktop but they managed to add color to the VI editor. What a joke. We were at this stage 15 years ago with OS/2

Larry Linder
Xenia, Ohio

[mebrelith]

Hehehe bad for you. Funny to see how most "experienced" users have problems with FC3. Im a total noob and so far had no big issue I couldnt handle. Maybe u r a bit too picky.

[jgionet]

I'm no linux expert and haven't had that many problems. I've used some older distros (briefly) in the past (Mandrake 9/10, Redhar 7.3/9) and still didn't run into that many problems. It's sites like this one who fill in the gaps when I run into any issues.

I personally think it might be time for you to upgrade your computer hardware :p

[jtang613]

Let me start by saying that I understand such a major upgrade can be tedious. There have been a great deal of changes to RH/FC (and GNU/Linux in general) since RH7.1. Many of these changes have been introduced to support new hardware architectures and increase compatibility and user-friendliness.

However, you seem to make a great deal of broad assumptions, without providing any evidence or examples to back up your claims. For instance: What hardware are you using? Is it possible it doesn't meet the minimum hardware requirements? What unwelcome changes are you referring to? Is it possible your opinion is in the minority?

This is a general opinion of Fedora Core and Red Hat developers.

I am a very experienced Unix and "C" user developer. I use RedHat 7.1 for business and it has worked very well once I fixed problems. I have evaluated every version of RedHat and Fedora since and have found the products lacking, and change for change sake unwelcome.
As an experienced developer, I'm sure you know that progress is an ongoing process. With each new feature added inevitably comes bugs. That is why it is best to wait a month or two before installing any new release.

1. Major updates focused on gay Icons and decorations instead of fixing real problems with things that do not work correctly.
Major updates to RH/FC have focused on kernel, X.org, security, window manager and application updates. Themes have actually comprised a relatively small part of the development. Individual theme preferences tend to vary from person to person. That's why it is possible to change the theme to your liking.

2. There has been an enormous amount of time spent to copy the worst features of Windoze and adding this crap to a good operating system and desktops.
Again, you really need to back up some of these claims with evidence. If you are referring to the "Blue Screen Of Death" or frequent / unexplained system lock-ups, I have not encountered any of these yet.

3. Fedora Core is not fit for public release.
I down loaded it and though right or wrong to use it to over lay a RedHat 7.3 on a development system. The video worked but most stuff didn't - I rally didn't expect it to work but didn't expect it to be this bad.
FC is not fit for everyone. It exists to serve as a development sandbox for RH. Many of the best and newest technologies are incorporated into FC to guage how they will perform in the 'real world'. This does, unfortunately, sometimes lead to headaches - ie: when selinux and udev first appeared. But eventually, these things get ironed out.

4. Fresh installation of Fedora - No video - used rescue to set runlevel to 3 on boot to see what was going on. It recognized my monitor type and video but driver it installed was in never never land. Doesn't anyone test anything anymore it has worked from RH 5 up to but not on Fedora Core ?
Again, what hardware are you using? Have you traced your logfiles? Have you consulted http://www.fedoraforum.org/ for help?

5. Finally convince my brother in law a hard core Windoze person and systems administrator for school to try it. - It would not install no mater what we tried until we used fsck to fix disk. A low level format was performed before the install to make sure it was clean. Fedora Core 3 is not up to installing on a clean disk - how can this be. As a long term Linux user - I have to say I was embarressed.
Is it possible that your hardware is not compatible? Without further information, we're forced to assume "user-error".

6. The video experience is typical of problems. File names were changed for some dumb reason - so all books and experience is worthless.
I understand now! It is not FC that you are against - It's change.

7. The book Fedora Core 3 Unleased book is about worthless - what ever you read of look up in the book is out of date, wrong, or file names have changed. So if you are having problems and it is your only system - not much chance of getting it running with available literature. Try to read help sutf written in HTML with VI.
Haven't read the book, but I'm sure you're probably right on this one. The best place to go when you're having problems is http://www.fedoraforum.org/ and http://www.google.com/
VI is used to read and edit text files. Try using Lynx for HTML files.

Linux will never be more than a curisity and will not have a place in the commercial world until the hard core developers take charge and stops the silly stuff.
Example my video didn't work so I can't use a desktop but they managed to add color to the VI editor. What a joke. We were at this stage 15 years ago with OS/2

Larry Linder
Xenia, Ohio
Your video doesn't work, so Fedora Core sucks, we get it.
When you're ready to give this an honest effort, we'll be here ;)

Jason

[Thomas Howard]

Odd, when I got some working CDs it installed and worked perfectly, no major problems and I keep seeing very cool features and wishing that windows had those features.

Redhat 9 is hopeless in comparison, and Redhat 7.3 must be even worse.

[Finalzone]

Linux will never be more than a curisity and will not have a place in the commercial world until the hard core developers take charge and stops the silly stuff.
It seems you are very late about this statement. Read these few exapmle:
Orbitz Joins Red Hat for Opening Keynote at LinuxWorld (http://www.redhat.com/about/presscenter/2004/press_lw_keynote.html)
Success Stories (http://www.redhat.com/solutions/info/casestudies/)
SuSE to push desktop Linux (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,39020381,2126160,00.htm)

Example my video didn't work so I can't use a desktop but they managed to add color to the VI editor. What a joke. We were at this stage 15 years ago with OS/2
You said you are an experienced developer. Like one poster pointed out, you didn't release the specification of the system so people will figure out the problem. Apparently, you system does not meet the requirement to run Fedora Core.

The lesson of this is the lack of information and education about the product.

[krisnalada]

For me, the installation goes without any problems on a laptop with quiet new hardware. The funs and problems started when I tried to customise some stuffs ^_^ happily, there is numerous forums, especially feroraforum which always give the answers. Just search google and/or ask the right question. That's a cool support and for free, isn't it ?
^_^

[kosmosik]

2. There has been an enormous amount of time spent to copy the worst features of Windoze and adding this crap to a good operating system and desktops.
can you give us some insight on what you mean?

Linux will never be more than a curisity and will not have a place in the commercial world until the hard core developers take charge and stops the silly stuff.
you like made two flaws in this statement
1. Linux is kernel, you meant Fedora as distribution...
2. Linux already has a big place in commercial world

[Zigzagcom]

:) I joined the FC3 club in mid-January, 2005. After downloading 4 isos from the net, I have done about a dozen succesfull installs, all with the same media. I am listening to oggvorbis
music files, have installed a LAMP platform and am having the time of my life learning the command line and the multitude of GUI configurations you can do with FC3. FC3 has made linux accessible to me, and yes, I do respect the shell. I use SSH to login remotely, already know about pwd, ls, more, exit and a few other commands... :D
geez, what else ?

[tiberiu]

Hi!

As a young aprentice I may say I have on my linux box everything I need: music/movies players, office, mail client, TV Time, skype!!, java, Pdf viewers, messengers, K3b (more then Nero), even windows antiviruses :)...

Yes i'm very unhappy with linux 'cause I remember with pleasure the time when the viruses and spywares and easy attacks from hackers where part of my family. We used to live together... :( (and of course, please don't laugh!, I was paying for these things). Great times!

Have a nice Sunday!

[james_in_denver]

Hey Larry, I am currently in "Yellow Springs" for a bit, want me to come on by and give you a hand with it?

(Redhat Certified).....

Pretty much most things worked "out of the Box" for me, except my wireless USB dongle, (that's the only thing FC3 didn't recogize). But after a bit of googling I found the right driver for it, and no real problems since.

[imdeemvp]

Come guys we know this is NOT A USEFUL thread! the only reason I am replying is so WE dont keep wasting our time. Fedora is working for us and thats all we need to know.

[sailor]

yeah, your right I think its just a troll...

[Dog-One]

I use SSH to login remotely, already know about pwd, ls, more, exit and a few other commands... :D geez, what else ?And I'll bet you learned it before you knew about info coreutils. Good job Zigzag. You stick around here and we'll have you doing all sorts of things you never thought possible.

To Larry Linder,

I'm sorry you got yourself in a scrape with Fedora--stuff happens. You still refer to Microsoft's flagship operating system as "Windoze", so unless you're willing to go the Mac OS X or BSD/Solaris flavors, you've kind of painted yourself into a corner. I highly recommend you slow down, ask well thought out questions on this forum and start over. It takes a little crap first to get the grass to grow greener.