Some statements, some Questions [Archive]

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snowful

12th February 2005, 11:02 PM

imdeemvp

12th February 2005, 11:11 PM

(ok, what's an md5 sum? Oh, I need to download a program to check it?)here is you answer. (http://www.linuxiso.org/viewdoc.php/verifyiso.html) and follow some of the links I have in signature for installation help. I have done many dual boots without problems no xp was lost (only once with mandrake 10 community which had a major bug but now fixed) and here is a slideshow of fc3 installation shot by shot. (http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=173&slide=1)

snowful

13th February 2005, 12:04 AM

I am working on it now. Thanks.

dickinsd

13th February 2005, 12:11 AM

snowful

13th February 2005, 12:50 AM

I downloaded and opened MD5Summer. From within MD5 I chose the 2.29 Gb Fedora file to check. I get a file is empty response. That is the iso file on my HDD. I tried checking the DVD that I burned it to and get the same thing. Nothing at the Summer site on this that I could find. A google search turned up nothing. I am going to try to install without checking and see what happens :eek:

greatscot

13th February 2005, 01:29 AM

I posted this in another thread. I don't know if it will be read, or answered there. I thought I would put it up for everyone to take a shot at. No, I do not work for the big M! I am only a consumer exploring alternatives. Here it is:

I am the newest of the noobs here. I began researching linux about 10 days ago. I wanted to try a free alternative to windows. I settled on Fedora C3. After formatting one partition to ext3, reading technical online manuals, a couple days of downloads and attempted burns, searching for more online manuals, reading forums where people recommend what code to input (are you serious?sheesh!), now reading where I should have checked the md5 sum BEFORE making the successful burn (ok, what's an md5 sum? Oh, I need to download a program to check it?), reading horror stories of machines that are dead in the water after an attempted install, now researching which bootloader I need to install and where to install it (yikes!) and HOW to install it .

Damnit, Jim, I'm just a doctor.

Not really, but I do feel there is nothing more I can do. I do not have the resources, or time to continue. My only hope is to pay for Linux.

Would someone please tell me why I would want to pay for another operating system when the one I have works flawlessly with everything I want to do on a computer?

Or did I miss something. Is Linux a techies dream come true.
First of all, I have learned that the problems which others face aren't necessarily going to present themselves to me. I have installed and worked with 17 distros over two years on 11 different machines and the only big problem was getting a weird video card on one machine to work, I eventually had to replace the card. Does this mean you will have no problems at all? Or that you will have tons of problems? No, it means that you should read the relevant docs for the apps/distros you desire and make your best attempt. You will find that a distro may install flawlessly on one machine, but will bring you nothing but problems on a different machine. Machines are different.

You already have the needed software to check the md5sum of a file. It is, more than likely, installed with your desired distro. Open a terminal and type: md5sum /path/to/filename.extension
That should give you a correct md5sum for the file which you can compare to the online md5sum.

The bootloader work is taken care of by Fedora Core 3, no need to wrack your brain there.

FC3 can be downloaded from the net. Start here: http://fedora.redhat.com/download/
If you don't want to go the download/burning route, you can order Fedora Core 3 from this site: http://linuxcentral.com/catalog/?s_prod_name=fedora&set_join=and&cat=search
I have friends who are on a dial-up connection that buy their Linux distros there. The price is only for the cost of burning the distro and the cost of the disks, so Linux is still free. Ususally only takes a week to be delivered to your home depending on where you live.

K3b is a nice CD/DVD burning app and it is what I use to burn ISO's (the files you download to install FC3) and k3b will check md5sums of the ISO files for you before burning them. Best of all, k3b comes with FC3. In fact, and I use my computers for lots of different jobs, I don't really install much that FC3 doesn't already install. Many times people install a distro and then go searching for an app to do a certain job when there is already one or more apps installed with the distro that will do that job. Learn as much as you can about your chosen distro. There's no substitute for knowledge and experience - which is why this forum is of such high value.

Lots of documentation can be found here:
http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/
http://www.fedorafaq.org/
http://www.fedora.us/wiki/FedoraHOWTO
http://www.linuxjunior.org/yabbse/index.php?board=12;action=display;threadid=10015;s tart=0#msg90841
http://home.gagme.com/greg/linux/fc3-tips.php

This is the most awesome Fedora Core forum on the planet: http://fedoraforum.org/
I could not survive without this treasue trove of support.

Do you use IRC? Log onto the freenode network (http://freenode.net/) and join the #fedora channel. There are folks there who are really polite and they know their stuff.

It's just my opinion, and the opinion of many, that Linux is more secure and stable than "the big M", not to mention that Linux allows the user to customise their distro to a rather large extent. Also, a friend gave me an older computer because his Windows XP wouldn't install on it. I took it and installed Fedora Core 3 on it and use it as a learning system for friends and family who are new to Linux.

I have been using Linux for two years and wouldn't dream of going back to Windows. We were all newbies at one time, hang in there, it's definitely worth it :D

greatscot

13th February 2005, 01:36 AM

Oh, and one more thing, come back to this forum and read the past posts/archives when you have time. I can't begin to tell you how much I learned by doing that.

crackers

13th February 2005, 02:31 AM

I posted this in another thread. I don't know if it will be read, or answered there.
Just a helpful little tip - don't do that. Since you've gotten answers here and the other thread is actually on a different topic, the thread(s) haven't been deleted. Multi-posting causes the issues and answers to be spread out (and thus more difficult for others to find answers). Plus, not only does this cause the original poster to excess "work" (checking two threads for answers), but annoys people trying to help ("Hey, I just answered that!").

Thank you.

imdeemvp

13th February 2005, 03:13 AM

Cool tip Imdeemvp!

I have done a couple of dual boot installs my self and FC/XP has never been a problem for me either. but do really like the slideshow link!

Definately a good one to remember when pointing new comers in the direction of help.

Dave
I found the site a few months ago....I believe it was linked from www.distrowatch.com and ever since when I want so see what a new distro offers I go there and to check them out.

snowful

13th February 2005, 04:03 AM

Sorry for the double post. That slideshow should come with the OS download. Believe me, asking for help here was my last resort. I have spent days researching and troubleshooting. I have been through the archives already.

Here is where I am at. I tried a disk I burned the other day. Voila! Fedora Core screen. So I followed the instructions and read along. I get to the partitioning step. It won't let me go any further. I get a response of : You have not defined a root partition (/) which is required for installation to continue. I don't know what to enter.

I tried: /dev/hda6 which is the partition it says is formatted to ext3.

I got: Error partitioning. Could not allocate requested partitions.

I tried a bunch of different stuff.

Then I tried to read the disk with md5summers. It seemed to read it. It came back with 83 errors. Could that be the problem?

greatscot

13th February 2005, 04:24 AM

You need three partitions:
/boot, swap and /
/boot should be about 105Mb, swap should be twice the size of your installed ram and / (root) should take up the rest of the space that you have allotted for FC3 - this information was taken from a few books about FC3 that I have purchased.

If you are installing FC3 as the only OS on the machine and don't want to bother with setting the partitions yourself, you can back up a screen or two (to the screen that has two radio buttons: 1. Automatically partition, 2. Manually partition with Disk Druid) and choose Automatically partition and the system will set up all the required partitions for you.

If you are planning on a dual-boot system, search the forum for "dual boot" or something similar and you'll find lots of info on it - I remember seeing several posts about this. I wish I knew more about dual-boot setups, but I don't.

Is this going to be a single FC3 computer or are you planning on a dual-boot system?

snowful

13th February 2005, 04:55 AM

Dual boot. I may have to try downloading the OS again.

greatscot

13th February 2005, 05:07 AM

Do a search of the forums for "how to dual boot windows and fedora".
I did that and was presented with several pages of threads on the subject.
Hopefully one of them will give you the required info :)

veritas

13th February 2005, 03:49 PM

Would someone please tell me why I would want to pay for another operating system when the one I have works flawlessly with everything I want to do on a computer?

Here's what I tell my friends at the present. I am fairly new to LInux myself. Installing FC3 was actually easy for me since I got a great deal on a big shiny new harddrive. I just let fc3 auto partition and off to the races. Fedora also located the other operating system and included that information in "GRUB" which is the program that controls booting and allows you to choose which operating system to boot.

HOWEVER, for fun I tried another distro...UBUNTU...and not only did I not get it to install, it did something to my Master Boot Record (the little file that tells the computer how to boot) for Windows XP and I'm still digging out from that.

In addition, I have not resolved many issues that are multimedia related. Getting video players to embed in a web page, for example, even after following all the steps correctly, does not always work. I also just put in an audio cd to see if the issues of none of my audio players' being able to play audio cd's had cleared up. Well, at this point, I can't even MOUNT audio cd's! (Mounting means grabbing whatever it is and giving the computer access to it.) This is a new problem. Before, the players could find the cd but couldn't play it. Some have suggested I need to get an audio cable for my cdrom...not required in Windows. (I will post my new cd issue in another thread, so let's not clutter this one.)

So I tell my friends two things. First, linux is still for enthusiasts and those with a pretty high degree of technical know-how or a pretty high degree of interest in developing that know-how. so, if you don't fit into either of those categories and Windows is working out for you...I'd keep Windows.

I also tell my friends interested in trying it out that dual booting is ESSENTIAL. Books and posts will say otherwise, but until you absolutely know what you are doing, you could end up losing some functionality until you get it all straightened out. So dual boot...yes, my young padewan.

So why am I messing with it. Well, the other day, I looked at my Windows desktop and saw how many icons led to programs to: prevent pop-ups, prevent spyware, find and remove spyware, find and remove adware, block viruses and find and repair viruses. Even with all that, I get (thanks primarily to a stepdaughter who visits the most commercial of sites) continues installation of spyware and adware. I don't know what Wild Tangent is...but you can't get rid of it for long. One piece of spyware...it might have been Wild Tangent...had the NERVE to make me fill out a survey before it would uninstall. I did fill out the survey but what I wrote will not be reprinted here!!!

Linux is not immune to viruses, but is immune to spyware, etc. It gives a KNOWLEDGEABLE user such control that security is much better. Right now I go on faith, as I don't know too much...but given all the critical security patches coming out of M$ these days...I think I"m better off!

There is also a philosophical issue. Linux is open source...which means many things. yes, it means you can get it free...or rather cheap if you buy from a commercial distro...the money pays for support, and some nonfreeware stuff and...let's be honest, for profit and a little hype. You might look at Linspire, if that interests you, by the way. slickest tutorial about a linux OS you'll ever see.

But Open Source means people all over the world cooperating to make something useful for no other reason than their own interest in being creative and helpful. Open Source also means that when there is a problem discovered, as happened with the Firefox browser recently, many, many people will be at work on a solution immediately...no two month lag between critical security flaw discovery and its solution!

Another philosophical issue here is the monopoly of microsoft. I read a great book called "Hackers" about the early days of computers. Bill Gates' genius? Not programmin...but being the first to charge outrageous prices for software that others wanted to give away. Now their attempts to destroy all competition are legendary, making operating systems, office utilities and other programs so costly that computers are out of reach for many lower income people. I like the idea of challenging that monopoly, and in the process, getting the advantages of computer ownership into the hands of more people. IBM is doing just that...pushing open source in China. Their motives are financial...but the idea is to get a foothold there BEFORE microsoft does.

On my Linux computer, if I paid full retail for the equivalent OS and other programs (including photoshop, which has an OS equivalent called GIMP ) We are talking over a thousand dollars. Now, I already own those programs, but I'm looking toward the future for myself.

As for your actual issue, I don't know. One problem with dual boot on one hard drive is that, by default, Windows will partition the entire hard drive, and once that happens, you can't undo it...at least not by windows alone. Even getting a ulitity that will allow it could cause loss of data. This doesn't sound like your issue, however, since you succesfully got a partition into ext3 format.

Anyway....Linux is close to being so user friendly that people will begin to flock to it. Right now, some of the bigger stumbling blocks include the fact that much hardware and some software for things most users expect to be able to do right away is not open source. That means getting these things to work is a huge challenge for some very clever programmers and we just have to keep waiting. Oh...and games...forget about it for now. If you are very savvy, there are some programs out there that can port windows games into Linux...but I've had no luck so far. The solution: encourage game makers to do their own linux ports. If enough people start doing so...well, where the money goes the program will follow!

Also, sometimes it is hard for newbies to get answers. There are so many answers out there that seem complete and clear to experienced users that they can forget how confusing it is for those of us who are new. You are experiencing that, despite the helpfulness of those in this forum. You really have to put in some time to even decipher some basic advice.

Good luck....come back in a year or two if it doesn't work out for you this time!

snowful

13th February 2005, 10:18 PM

Very nice read, veritas. I know about Bill and his monopoly. I am philosophically opposed to any such activity as well.

I thank all of you for answering here. Every post contained at least one useful piece of advice or link to great information. I hope I didn't sound flaming in my original post, it wasn't meant to be that way. I became extremely frustrated, tired, hungry, and eventually fatigued after staring at the computer screen for hour after hour, day after day, sifting through thousands of posts and tutorials trying to find the exact answer to each little problem that arose.

My greatest fear was losing the time I had invested into this project if I failed. Second was the increasingly looming spectre of a catastrophic event, and wasting a day performing a windows clean install with all its reconfiguring and potential hassles.

I need a break. But it's ok. At approximately 0400 hrs. my system dual booted.

YES OOH YES YES!
Yeap I'm communicating here through Fedora.
I am taking a couple days break.
I WILL return. With more questions heh. Thanks again. Oh, BTW, I may have some information I can pass on to a first time installer someday!

imdeemvp

13th February 2005, 10:41 PM

You can really tell veritas encounter some major issues with xp :p

awdac

13th February 2005, 11:12 PM

So I tell my friends two things. First, linux is still for enthusiasts and those with a pretty high degree of technical know-how or a pretty high degree of interest in developing that know-how. so, if you don't fit into either of those categories and Windows is working out for you...I'd keep Windows.

Most everything you said was true, veritas, particularly in the context of what the OP asked, but I wanted to add something to the above. Linux as a Desktop OS fits the description above. But the largest usage share is server usage where it is *quite* mature. Maybe that's what you implied by "those with a high degree of technical knowhow" and that's fine, but I guess I'm answering the unasked question of 'why does it get so much hype, yet is still this hard?' Like you said, the system is developed by programmers whose first concern is not desktop uses. At least not yet. Which is why your other statement is crucial in so many places, not just gaming:

The solution: encourage game makers to do their own linux ports. If enough people start doing so...well, where the money goes the program will follow!

That's true. If you can't help out by programming, no problem. Write documentation, help new users, support projects financially when you can, but most of all, it helps to encourage and to help your schools, your places of employment, and your merchants to be open to adoption. It's not as easy as it sounds and can often backfire if not done correctly. You don't want to suggest that your whole office move to open source software if there's not a single person there who has any familiarity with it. Introduce things by taking a lead role. Make people comfortable with the adoption by being comfortable with it yourself and taking the time to do the initial grunt-work. People love things that are free and open-source when the onus is not on them to be the early adopters. Those who are given something unfamiliar without warmth and assistance will reject it loudly and thoroughly. Unless they're truly curious, which would imply that they're already Linux users, right? ;)

veritas

13th February 2005, 11:38 PM

Well, not knowing what you mean by "matured" I will add that I did not go into all the things Linux is far superior for other than desktops usage for average users. That was not his question. I share his frustrations. I almost went to Linspire as that seem to be such a complete package...but they seem pretty controlling...and I think they even charge for "membership" to their update repository. However, I'll bet they really are easy to use.

Oh, and I fixed my cd issue by the way....well I didn't fix it. I tried player after player and none could open an audio cd and play it...except for totem-xine. No idea why...but you can check my thread under "hardware" if you'd like to check out an interesting mystery.

I'm so convinced that Linux is going to bust through soon that I've even considered taking the Redhat certification courses, but they are prohibitively expensive form me at the moment. So I have rants like the OP on here myself...but I perservere!