Fedora Core 4 Release, Core 2 Legacy Schedules Announced

[ghenry]

http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/schedule/
----
The Fedora Core 4 preliminary release schedule has been announced. It is available at the Fedora Core web site:

* Test 1 - Feb 21
* Test 2 - March 21
* Test 3 - April 18
* Final Release - May 16

The release of Core 4 Test 2 will be significant for Core 2 users, according to a separate announcment received by Linux Today Friday:

"The Fedora Steering Committee proposes to transfer Fedora Core 2 to the Fedora Legacy Project at the point Fedora Core 4 Test 2 is released. This is currently scheduled for March 21, 2005.

"For more information on the Fedora Legacy Project, or if you wish to join the team please see http://fedoralegacy.org/."

Taken from: http://linuxtoday.com/it_management/2005011600826OSRHSW

[dnar]

Quit a period of time between 3-4, unlike 1-2, 2-3. I guess it will be worth the wait, as usual.

[ghenry]

Yes I know, but there has been a lot of changes between 2&3, so I guess they are smoothing them out for 4.

[awesomejt]

I didn't have a clue what great and wonderful things FC3 gave us over FC2. At least, until AFTER I installed it to find out. :) When Test 1,2,3 came out -- I wasn't sure what to test!

At no point during the schedule for FC3 did they list what they expected to release in FC3. I'm assuming we can expect the same for FC4. I think it would be nice to know what to actually look forward to, other than upgrading to a non-legacy version. Minor updates to packages doesn't count. I'm not sure updating to all current packages really qualifies for a major release -- more like FC 2.1 or something.

[jcstille]

What do ya'll think about transferring FC2 to the legacy project after a test release? My personal opinion is that they should wait until FC4 final release is out, so that people can upgrade to a non=test release. Unless the upgrade to Core 3, but then that is gonna be obselete soon enough. People in my opinion don't want to be updating their systems every couple of months.

[foolish]

Here's a thread on the fedora-devel mailing list discussing the major improvements of Core 4:

http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2005-January/msg00521.html

Some very interessting stuff, I'm looking forward to it.

[awesomejt]

Certainly there are some nice changes, but since I don't see any major changes, I only see this as a minor update, more or less Fedora Core 3.1 or so. Still some nice things coming, but I just think it is a bit mislabeled. If they get gcc 4 in this time, then maybe call it FC 3.5. :)

And yes, moving to legacy a core version at Test 2 seems odd. I thought it was odd when the legacy FC1 at FC3 Test2 and I still think it is the case now. At least wait until final before dropping support (moving to legacy) any previous Core release.

By the time I figure out how I want my system setup, a new release comes out.

[RedFedora]

I'm still ironing out the bugs on my Fedora Core 2 box. After all this tweaking, ironing and
bug squashing I'm not sure if I want to stick with FC2 or jump to FC4. I think the
way Fedora seems to be improving (especially between 2-3) I'll upgrade.

[crossfire]

At least I think this release will become more bugless possible. Minor changes, less bugs.

[o-ren]

excuse me for being perhaps ignorant, but whats the point in such a quick upgrade? its only been a couple months since i moved from 2 to 3.
their cant possibly be so many bugs in fc3 that fc4 needs to come out so quickly, and if that were true then why not work them out in fc3?

i cant figure it out so it seems a waste of time to me right now.

[Paul_Vandenberg]

Does anyone know if FC4 will have menu editing in GNOME?

[Finalzone]

GNOME menu editing is buggy therefore most distros disabled that feature. Even GNOME developers don't work on that issue as they are focusing to work with a new version that is conform to freedesktop.org now similar to XFCE4.2.

[ghenry]

Done anyone else fell that just when you get comfortable with one release a new one comes out?

[Paul_Vandenberg]

GNOME menu editing is buggy therefore most distros disabled that feature. Even GNOME developers don't work on that issue as they are focusing to work with a new version that is conform to freedesktop.org now similar to XFCE4.2.

I was under the impression that GNOME 2.10 was going to have a rewritten menu system and therefore, menu editing would be back. I was wondering if that was on target or not. Menu editing is one of the things that keeps me on KDE.

Paul

[Paul_Vandenberg]

Done anyone else fell that just when you get comfortable with one release a new one comes out?

I've started to wonder myself if the releases are too frequent. Perhaps 9 months or even a year between releases might be better.

Paul

[dnar]

Done anyone else fell that just when you get comfortable with one release a new one comes out?
At least with Fedora/Linux you can get comfortable, unlike in Windows land. :D

[dnar]

I've started to wonder myself if the releases are too frequent. Perhaps 9 months or even a year between releases might be better.

Paul
You always have the option to NOT update. I sat on RH9 and missed FC1, chosing to wait for FC2. I saw little point, as my RH9 was fully patched up, and with many addons. FC1 would have given me little but a few new nightmares.

I am glad I went from FC2 to FC3 as soon as it was out, it was much of an improvement for me presonally. When FC4 is released, I will however give it a test run on my tst mule first. Very comfortable and happy on FC3 you see.

It's all about choice.

[crossfire]

Done anyone else fell that just when you get comfortable with one release a new one comes out?

I notest this... I felt that I can stop and take a time in this version, when I see 8 cds(FC2-FC3) burned and 3 ones (FC1 from a magazine) around. :D

[crossfire]

I've started to wonder myself if the releases are too frequent. Perhaps 9 months or even a year between releases might be better.

Paul

In my opinion I think should be more time to discover bugs and corrections. Few weeks are not enough.

[CrystalCowboy]

excuse me for being perhaps ignorant, but whats the point in such a quick upgrade? its only been a couple months since i moved from 2 to 3.
their cant possibly be so many bugs in fc3 that fc4 needs to come out so quickly, and if that were true then why not work them out in fc3?

i cant figure it out so it seems a waste of time to me right now.
The point is that You, the Fedora user, get to deal with those bugs so the Red Hat Enterprise customers don't have to. Fedora seems to be on a strict 6 month turnover schedule. You might have noticed that FC3 was released just a few days before a couple package updates because they didn't want to fall too far off their schedule.

If you don't like it, demand your money back.

[sailor]

It seems that FC 4 really should be FC 3...I think the schedule release periods should be longer...but of course that is determined by those who stand to make a profit by selling the next big thing.

[cscheng]

May be, but that would be one major upgrade! Red Hat just wants to see what's possible with the newest Linux software, so that they can experiment for RHEL.

[vetrivelsn]

i am a person who shifted to fedora core 2 from fedora core 3 after disapponting performance in my old machine. hopes fedora core 4 will be helpful for linux newbie like me

[taylor65]

personally, i agree with redhat releasing fc every 6 months - it fits redhat's purpose, it fits the core community that uses it, and it helps the open source community in general. if you want a fully tested version of linux that's easy for newbies for a home pc, you may want to look at joining the mandrakeclub and use mandrake 10.1 (a very nice distribution).

[o-ren]

The point is that You, the Fedora user, get to deal with those bugs so the Red Hat Enterprise customers don't have to. Fedora seems to be on a strict 6 month turnover schedule. You might have noticed that FC3 was released just a few days before a couple package updates because they didn't want to fall too far off their schedule.

If you don't like it, demand your money back.

i will not be, as you say "demanding my money back". and i never meant to bring scorn or doubt on the fedora distro. i simply wondered why they would work so hard to constantly bring out a new distro so often when they could simply perfect one a year or two years. but thank you for answering my question, i did not know that we dealt with the bugs so that those who buy the product dont have to.

sincerely yours.

[markb]

What do ya'll think about transferring FC2 to the legacy project after a test release? My personal opinion is that they should wait until FC4 final release is out, so that people can upgrade to a non=test release. Unless the upgrade to Core 3, but then that is gonna be obselete soon enough. People in my opinion don't want to be updating their systems every couple of months.

Will I not be able to upgrade from FC2 to FC4 final release then? That was what I was intending to do.

[superbnerd]

Will I not be able to upgrade from FC2 to FC4 final release then? Yes you could, but its not ideal becuase fc4 will still be in a test stage. The final supposedly stable version will come a few weeks later. However, the situation isn't that dire.

Granted, I don't know how dependable the legacy project has been becuase I was aware that fedora is a short-life experimental disto, but just depending on legacy maintainace for a couple of months shouldn't be much of a problem if you have already taken security measures. Anyways, if you are using fedora an a production enviroment (not advised) you should wait about a month after each new release before upgrading becuase there are always a few bugs that are over looked.

[markb]

Oh, I see. I misunderstood in thinking that I physically wouldn't be able to upgrade my system. It just means that if I don't upgrade FC2 until FC4 Final Release i will spend a few months without Fedora Project support.

[awesomejt]

There is nothing wrong with running FC in a production environment. It depends on *what* that means as to weather that is a good idea or not. I would rather run a Test 1 of any version of Fedora than run Windows openly exposed to the Internet.

Now, if you work in a big-wig Dilbert Zone type company, then the choice has already been made for you. A lot of folks recommend RHEL simply because they cannot convince the managers otherwise and then the managers look at the price tag and say -- if it costs THAT much, just run Windows! Of course, these folks are usually technically inept (but have all the decision-making power) and thus don't consider things like security and stability in their cost analysis.

Also, if you need to install it and just leave it alone, then RHEL will serve well in that it has a much longer supported life span. You can simply install it and just apply security patches as they are released -- which is nice, but you pay for the service. Or if you are going to need to chat with RH support, then go with RHEL.

Fedora is the "test bed" for future RHEL versions -- RHEL 4 is a great example of this. You can infer that RHEL = Fedora Core + additional testing + proprietary extensions + official support. Actually the "additional testing" part of the equation is assumed as well, since I have no evidence to support this -- I ASSUME that if RH is going to support it, they will dedicate some additional effort into testing/fixing issues than the original Core it was built around. Of course, they way RH is doing FC, they effectively get thousands of "free" testers (you and me!) that work out the majority of the bugs before they graft it into RHEL. I nice system for both sides, I get a fairly current and stable OS for free and I help find bugs or effectively help with QA by running FC.

For smaller companies or for small single purpose boxes, FC will work just fine. Basically it boils down to waying the cost of RHEL (yearly subscription) vs the implied benefits over FC. If you never call RH for support and don't plan to, that might sway you towards FC. If the short development cycles become an issue, than you might lean towards RHEL -- altough FedoraLegacy Project does help equal out that arguement. If your managers don't feel confortable running "unsupported" software, then the choice has already been made. Most distros of Linux are actually "unsupported" -- only big companies like Novell, RedHat, etc can offer "support" for their distro. Of course, even on "unsupported" distros, there are PLENTY of consulting companies that specialize in supporting the unsupported. :)

Of course, by now, I'm way off topic. Ok, back to the "I'm so excited about FC4" posts!

[Varkk]

Done anyone else fell that just when you get comfortable with one release a new one comes out?


Yeah same, for this reason I decided I will only update on even numbered releases. But I like how my FC2 system is running now, I might stick with it after it goes into legacy.

[linux4life]

I'm looking forward to it. I feel comfortable when anything new comes out. Apart from Windoze :p

[kennon]

I am all about a quick release schedule. Especially with as easy as upgrading is in Fedora. Not like you have to set everything up over again, I went from FC2 to FC3 by putting the disks in and clicking next a couple times and I was done in like 30 mins. It doesnt overwrite any of you config files in your home directory or anything and I have not had any major buggyness either. Although I can eventually see the number situation spiraling out of control. In a couple years we will be running Fedora 15 or something silly like that. Maybe they should make it Fedora Core 3.5 or something ;-)

[Chas.H]

Done anyone else fell that just when you get comfortable with one release a new one comes out?
The fact that this is linux and not Microsoft makes me comfortable with releases coming out quickly because I don't feel any pressure to upgrade. I can if I want, but it won't start falling apart if I don't.

Now I'm using FC2 and given the news about FC4 I think I'll wait for it.

[ieuuk]

im looking forward to FC4, but i think the reasons that they put in new versions so quickly and then stop supporting the older ones is because we are really all beta testers for red hat enterprise and i assume that they want us all on the newer stuff to make sure that it all works before it goes to the "big boys" (so to speak)

[imdeemvp]

SELinux Episode III: Revenge of the AVCI wonder how buggy this one is going to be. Mine is disabled anyway.

[ieuuk]

I wonder how buggy this one is going to be. Mine is disabled anyway.

same - couldnt really see the advantages for using it.

[RedFedora]

Since I don't run any services, I don't see much point in SELinux either. However, I could see how it would be useful for servers.

[SlowJet]

Guys, :)

SELinux is FC3 otherwise, there are dozens of Linux distro clones than one can clobber their data with.
Lindspire 4.5 aka Lindows - FC1 customised on a 1GHPent M with max 1GB mem sales for $179 or $279 plus mem upgrade at Walmat. There are more programs on the PC than you can shake a stick at.
But, in the hands of a tipical home user it would run for about a month.

Instead of refuting the transformation with geek thohts, how about you get together and code a GUI for the IPTables (with SELinux included of course). :)

SJ

[cybrjackle]

I wonder how buggy this one is going to be. Mine is disabled anyway.
I wouldn't say that fc3 implementation with SELinux and targeted-policy is buggy at all. FC3 it works like it is supposed to, you shouldn't notice much unless your running:


Q:

What daemons are protected by the targeted policy?
A:

Currently, the list of daemons is dhcpd, httpd (apache.te), named, nscd, ntpd, portmap, snmpd, squid, and syslogd. The policy files for these daemons are found in /etc/selinux/targeted/src/policy/domains/program.

In the future, more daemons will be added to the targeted policy protection.

For any sort of desktop user, you wont notice it hurting you at all.

http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq-fc3/index.html#id2879442

[thebigsam]

I think the release has come a bit soon also. Ive just moved to FC3 and im settling in fine so i dont know it i will jump to fc4 maybe ill just change distros totally umm....

[RedFedora]

I don't think I'd mind upgrading so much if it wasn't for the lack of media support in Fedora.
Upgrades aren't recommended and a clean install means I'd have to re-install all those
extra packages.

[Kenotic]

OK I am new to fedora so I have to ask. How do you upgrade in fedora? Do I just do an up2date, reinstall or do I pop in the new cd and upgrade like that?

[RedFedora]

Most people recommend backing up your /home directory and the /etc directory. Then doing
a fresh install (of the new version) from CDs.

You may also upgrade Fedora versions by starting an install from CDs and
then selecting to upgrade rather than perform a fresh install. If you
do this it is also recommended you backup your data first.