Is it just me, or does this annoy you too?

[v8s10blazer]

You know what im getting sick of seeing on the forums? Things subject NEWBIE NEEDS HELP... IM A NOOB, blah blah blah...

99% of the time i dont even think about helping those people... For some reason it just annoys me... Yah theres a lot of people getting into linux and thats cool and all, but if youre going to come out and say hi im a dumba-- help me! Then ya know, nm lol...

So am i just a grumpy 20 year old or does this bother everyone else too?

[h4d]

It's fine with me....

[bob]

No, it doesn't. Frankly, I think it's helpful to know how much detail you have to give in an answer to a question. If someone mentions that they are a noob or just installed FC, I'm going to include more info on command line instructions and perhaps give a GUI alternative. Better than giving a tip and having the guy come back to you an hour later with 'how do you do that?' - just saves time in the long run.

[owakroeger]

Well.....you could look at it as an opportunity to feel superior to that ignoramus who actually admitted that he/she was new at something. Lord knows, you've never needed help with anything at all. You were born, knowing everything there is to know about everything.

owa

[i1n2d3y4]

I think the whole point of web communities such as fedoraforum is to elp each other, and of course it helps to know if the person I am talking to will even understand what I am on about (so if they do mention they are a newbie, we can potentially tone down the more technical intricate details etc.)

But at the same time, I do understand what you are saying, People have to be ready and willing to help themselves as well. They should not come to fedoraforum and expect to be spoonfed, Most likely people are going to point them in the general direction or give them a few pointers etc.

[hollenjj]

People have to be ready and willing to help themselves as well.

I agree with you i1n2d3y4, people are so used to M$ leading them around by the nose that they forget and fear to use their brains. Instead of experimenting to try and solve a problem, they immediately jump on the boards and expect others to also lead them around by the nose.

I applaud that more and more people are trying Linux, but they also need to break the cycle of mindless computing that M$ has created.

Eh, just my $0.02. :)

[yanik]

Instead of experimenting to try and solve a problem, they immediately jump on the boards

Yep, and at that precise moment, the board's search engine isn't working and somehow google is down. It's ok to point newbies to search engines for general easy questions. You can even give 'em the search words so they stumb right on it by themself.

[inha]

I think it's usually best to just point someone completely new to the right direction of learning things on their own or experimenting. Anyone can copy/paste your instructions and not learn anything and be completely lost facing a problem that's essentially just a small variation of the issue you helped him to solve.

[dnar]

Everyone is a N00B sometime, at least they are honest.

The only issue I have personally is people posting topics like "I need help" or "Damn this 5Ux0r5" - not even a hint of the problem in the title...

We always have the choice of skipping such threads, so it's no biggy.

[jtang613]

I have nothing against helping the less-experienced user.

But I certainly agree with the OP in that I also find it very irritating when I see posts with the subject: "Need help!" or "Newbie can't install" or "Newbie needs help" or "Help with problem".

These subject lines tell me nothing. Why should I put any effort toward helping someone who doesn't even have enough regard to state the problem in the subject line. The problem isn't that you need help. That part is obvious - otherwise why post in a User Help Forum? The subject line is there to advertise the general issue you will be outlining inside the message.

While I'm ranting, what's wrong with using proper spelling and grammar? I realize there are many here whose native language is not English - and it is usually obvious and forgiven. What is equally obvious is when someone *is* an English-speaker, but simply puts zero effort toward spelling, grammar and punctuation.

m2c,
Jason

[v8s10blazer]

Yah, well i think i came off the wrong way a little bit... I didnt mean theres something wrong with being new or saying i dont know, its just the way they say it annoys me... I mean, im not a linux expert myself but when you refer to yourself as a newbie is what i dont like.

I think its because in my area, a lot of the gamer/computer people use noob too much... They are like, you noob, omg there are noobs at this party blah blah blah... So i guess since i hear it so much, its just kinda wore out ya know?

[jcstille]

I don't like using the terms, but I like it when they say I am new to this, rather than I am a noob or newbie. I don't like that speak. But I will still try and help them.

[KiwiNZ]

The term noob irritates the heckout of me.
I will relate an experience of a friend of mine who visited a well known Windows focused forum site to get some assistance with WinXP SP2 . Now this guy uses his PC purely as a tool to get a job done , thats it , but he needed something fixed.
All the replies he got for what was a reasonable question were insults from members
E.G you stupid noob ..... another noob moron ..... etc etc
This guy has a double Doctorate and is very intelligent . Computers are just a tool to him .
Many forum sites have pushed for and are listed on Software sites like Microsoft as a means of getting help. To treat people like this is so wrong and gives the industry a bad name . Just a little story to give a human perspective

[v8s10blazer]

yah that is EXACTLY why it bothers me... I associate noob with bad stuff..

[pigpen]

well, if it's too "n00b", i leave it to the coalition of the willing.... ;)

[Jman]

Yes, please make your thread titles as descriptive as possible.

I don't mind helping new users out. Helping them is pretty satisfying, actually. It's the "l33t sp34k" I can't stand. I much prefer "Hello this is my first try at Linux" than "HELP!! I'M A N00B!!!". Settle down and try to write professionally, almost like a letter. I guarentee better writing will help you.

Both of these are a part of our posting guidelines (http://fedoraforum.org/guidelines.php). Stick to them and life will be easier for all of us.

I agree with you i1n2d3y4, people are so used to M$ leading them around by the nose that they forget and fear to use their brains. Instead of experimenting to try and solve a problem, they immediately jump on the boards and expect others to also lead them around by the nose.

I applaud that more and more people are trying Linux, but they also need to break the cycle of mindless computing that M$ has created.

Spelling Microsoft M$ also is a little juvenile. Yes Microsoft products cost money but you don't have to do that every time you refer to them.

[crackers]

For anyone out there reading this, please note there are two main "threads" here:

1) "l33t"-speak (same category as SMS or "text messaging"). You are not being cool, you are not coming off superior, and you're not being charged by the letter.

2) Grammar and spelling - like it or not, English has beome "lingua terra" - look upon posting here as an excellent way to hone your typing and communication skills.

The better you communicate, the better you'll be able to get help. And communication skills will be (are) a large part of any professional occupation. Being effective in communication, especially typed like this, is absolutely crucial for advancement. When was the last time you heard a CTO address a board of directors as "dudes and chicks?" Ain't gonna happen...

[KiwiNZ]

With all due respect crackers this is a tech site , not an English 101 help site.
If one is to run a site in the international arena one must accept that for a large percentage of the readers English will not be their primary language.

I agree with your point 1) above to a degree. However language is an evolving thing , after all the English spoken 400 years ago was vastly different to that spoken now. What is referred to now as l33t speak may will be common usage English in 20 years.

All to often of late you see replies to post from the spelling and grammar police.Why ? what does it really serve? If you can understand what the person has posted does it really matter that words have been spelt incorrectly?

[marks_linux]

I agree with 1) 1000% I want to read posts and search posts before asking 'noob' questions I don't want o go through mental mazes deciphering text style posts (not just this site!) into understandable english. And yes I have embraced the joy? of mobile texting but like to leave texting where it belongs.

[crackers]

With all due respect crackers this is a tech site , not an English 101 help site.
If one is to run a site in the international arena one must accept that for a large percentage of the readers English will not be their primary language.
Why not both? That's the point I was trying to make. This is, as you say, a tech site and (sadly even for this native speaker), English is "the" tech language. Use this forum to practice and, if you're not quite sure on how to phrase something, ask!

All to often of late you see replies to post from the spelling and grammar police.
Granted I don't read every post, but I don't see this at all (here, that is), except to possibly ask for clarification. I've seen lots of first posts apologizing for their lack of English skills - which does annoy me. Don't apologize! Just try to improve, both for your sake and mine. ;)

[piedamaro]

I don't like to read "n00b need help"-like titles, but I don't have any problems if they ask interesting things. The fact is that most of the times, the ask something that requires a lot of typing to be explained, probably an overwhelming mass of informations, and a pray to RMS in the hope they will catch your points :p

[KiwiNZ]

Why not both? That's the point I was trying to make. This is, as you say, a tech site and (sadly even for this native speaker), English is "the" tech language. Use this forum to practice and, if you're not quite sure on how to phrase something, ask!


Granted I don't read every post, but I don't see this at all (here, that is), except to possibly ask for clarification. I've seen lots of first posts apologizing for their lack of English skills - which does annoy me. Don't apologize! Just try to improve, both for your sake and mine. ;)

I will relate why I am a bit passionate about this . My son suffers from a learning disability which has made his spelling ,grammar and writting like that of a 5 year old. This is not related to intelligence, as he is now at Uni , and with the use of reader writers he is doing very well.
If he were to post here himself he would appear very bad , with very bad spelling and grammar. And would be thus corrected .
During his schooling he suffered terrible bullying because of his disability to the point he attempted suicide, this was at the age of 10 . He had hidden the bullying from us .It makes me tearful just to write this. He changed school several times after that . He has had a huge struggle to achieve what he has , but he will get his Degree. its so important that we should not judge as we don't know the person who is posting

So before we criticise someones bad spelling or grammer , stop and think , its is much easier just to answer them , they to maybe suffering as my son does.

[Uhlix]

I will relate why I am a bit passionate about this . My son suffers from a learning disability which has made his spelling ,grammar and writting like that of a 5 year old. This is not related to intelligence, as he is now at Uni , and with the use of reader writers he is doing very well.
If he were to post here himself he would appear very bad , with very bad spelling and grammar. And would be thus corrected .
During his schooling he suffered terrible bullying because of his disability to the point he attempted suicide, this was at the age of 10 . He had hidden the bullying from us .It makes me tearful just to write this. He changed school several times after that . He has had a huge struggle to achieve what he has , but he will get his Degree. its so important that we should not judge as we don't know the person who is posting

So before we criticise someones bad spelling or grammer , stop and think , its is much easier just to answer them , they to maybe suffering as my son does.


good post :)

[imdeemvp]

Well I think is helpful when they address themselves as new comers that way we can provide a more easy and understandable answer.

Everyone starts somewhere and being a newbie and learning this thingy is OK for me. :D

[atrax_au]

Semantics aside I think one very important issue is that, when we are 'less informed' is that we need to remind ourselves to search for a thread that is relevant to our particular problem instead of immediately launching a new thread :eek: when we get stuck. Even when we have very little idea what the problem is, some attempt to categorise the problem should be made. Mostly the same problems get listed over and over and .... (I'm recently guilty of this - oops :o )

Newbie is a crap word, so is noob. Sick of xxxx for dummies too! Maybe a cute little icon with a baby face might provide some relief. :)

[imdeemvp]

! Maybe a cute little icon with a baby face might provide some relief.
Thats a good idea but also when you register it should be know n you are a newbie even though not every comer to fedora are new linux users.

[pigpen]

This is not meant to be sarcastic, but a little "RTFM" once in a while would help about 50% of the people that like to refer to themselves as "n00bs" in their posts. On the other hand, there are a lot of people in this forum who have a second sight for a beginner's *exact* problem, so I would say, there is no need to discuss this thread anymore. Those who have this "second sight" will give the most accurate answer (as always) and those who are not inclined to answer a post will remain silent....

[Uhlix]

This is not meant to be sarcastic, but a little "RTFM" once in a while would help about 50% of the people that like to refer to themselves as "n00bs" in their posts. On the other hand, there are a lot of people in this forum who have a second sight for a beginner's *exact* problem, so I would say, there is no need to discuss this thread anymore. Those who have this "second sight" will give the most accurate answer (as always) and those who are not inclined to answer a post will remain silent....


i agree with RTFM 110% but somtimes the man. doesnt explain things well enough for the person. Or they do not understand what the man. is explaining.

[crackers]

If he were to post here himself he would appear very bad , with very bad spelling and grammar. And would be thus corrected .
I'm glad that you and your son have achieved so much - that is a tribute to both you and him (especially him) in persevering. So I can quite understand your touchiness on this subject.

However, I re-iterate - I do not see posts correcting grammar and spelling as much as you imply. I've done a touch, but (I think) with a bit of humor and sense of impishness. If you can point out the specific instances, I'm sure myself and my fellow moderators will look into it.

[Shadow Skill]

What is the big deal if a person says they are a noob? The fact that they are new at something and actually state it pisses you off? That is really sad, as for the RTFM quite frankly I do not see a point in Linux program makers even including a manual since not a single damned one of them has any concept of how to write a good manual. If anyone else outside of those inept [in terms of writing good instruction manuals.] developers wrote a text book in the manner they write manuals nobody would even bother to pick it up and open it even if it did have the information they sought. Badly written manuals are actually worse than simply not wasting disk space on them to begin with. I have been using Linux for almost a year and I still don't understand those worthless things.

[v8s10blazer]

because NOOB IS GAMER TALK THATS WHY... And really, gamer people are just a little too dorky for me to handle... Especially when you see them bringing their own chairs to a lan party... People just take things too far and like it or not, it annoys me... sorry...

[Uhlix]

because NOOB IS GAMER TALK THATS WHY... And really, gamer people are just a little too dorky for me to handle... Especially when you see them bringing their own chairs to a lan party... People just take things too far and like it or not, it annoys me... sorry...

and people who park thier car close to thier window so they can touch it isnt taking things... to far. Everyone is diffrent, if you dont like how people talk/type ignore them.

:edit: maybe the reason he/she brought a chair was because they were worried that there would not be enough...i dunno i have never been to a lan party so i wouldnt know but that makes some sence to me.

[v8s10blazer]

hey shadow-

sorry for my less that friendly post last night... Sometimes i get a little aggeravated sometimes.

[Shadow Skill]

Don't worry about it, I get heated about things like this too you aren't the only one, however the chair thing does make alot of sense to me, why sit in a foreign throne when you can bring your own?

[v8s10blazer]

haha yah... i mean there were decent chairs there... I think sometimes i just feel threatened or something.. So i tend not to like other tech people for some reason... I need to get over that lol...

[Shadow Skill]

I'm not going to eat you or anything, no need to be afraid of me. :)

[v8s10blazer]

haha AHHHHHHHH ITS SHADOWWWWW RUN EVERYONE!!!

[Shadow Skill]

They always run away..sigh. :D

[telmo]

What a killer arrogance...

Sorry if i don't post this very well... I'M A NOOB!!!
I think a little humility would do you some good... after all it could be you!
Most people don't even know where to begin when it comes to linux or even forums...
So... i think you should take it easy and do for others as you'd like them to do for you... :rolleyes:

[Dog-One]

Hehe! It's not like you have to invite them over to dinner and setup a guess bed or anything. If you think you can help someone, do it. If not, wait a few hours and look again. Most everyone here does what they can to help. I have come across many posts that I know for sure if I wanted to spend several hours doing all the legwork necessary, I could get some poor soul up-n-running. Sometimes I do it and other times I go play ball with my son. It comes down to a matter of priorities--what is more important. We're all in this together, so don't lose sight of the big picture. And one more thing, n00B_Killers--go play shoot'm up, don't play here.