Why did they mess up disk utility?

[DBelton]

I am wondering why they messed up the disk utility in F17.

Now it takes several clicks and a little ESP to find the menu then click on it to show SMART data, then another click to actually display the SMART data, where the one in F16 was one click, and BAM the SMART data was showing on the screen.

Also, they took out several features, like the drive benchmark.

IHow hard would it be to go back to the F16 version of disk utility in F17 instead of the stripped down and harder to use version included?

[Apostate]

Gnome seem intent on making it harder to do the more complex tasks through a gui.

[DBelton]

Yep, it sure appears tat way. :(

I was trying the 2012/01/27 nightly and from what I saw, I sure won't be updating to F17 using Gnome. I may go with some other desktop environment, but definitely won't be using Gnome.

I may just go back to F14 and stay there until the Gnomes get their heads out of their butts. F17 Gnome is much worse than F16 Gnome (and I thought it couldn't get any worse)

[tox]

Yep, it sure appears tat way. :(

I was trying the 2012/01/27 nightly and from what I saw, I sure won't be updating to F17 using Gnome. I may go with some other desktop environment, but definitely won't be using Gnome.

I may just go back to F14 and stay there until the Gnomes get their heads out of their butts. F17 Gnome is much worse than F16 Gnome (and I thought it couldn't get any worse) bettter idea is to use KDE or some small WM . Gnome3 is going down the tubes. or try Cinnamon. i see people are trying to get Unity into fedora but some dont realise leigh has orphaned compiz. so someone else will have to pick it up.

or try Fuduntu

[Dan]

I'm giving more serious thought to giving up my overpowering lazy streak and learning how to compile Enlightenment/e16 on demand and just using them.

I don't own a smart phone, and the second half of that is I'm not likely to, so much of that current focus is lost on me. And at this point, Gnome-2, Enlightenment (e17/e16), or Compiz-fusion on something like SL-6 would serve my purposes long term.

Right now F16/e16~17 is holding up on the Fukushima Special (forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?p=1494379), the Traveler (forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?p=1486605) and this HDD in the desktop, but with each useful flexibility/feature they remove from Gnome-3 in place of a twisted iphone®/Microsoft Windows 8®/Mac®-like user experience, the farther away from my little frequented corner of the linux market they get. There's still a pronounced tendency among the Gnome-Gnuts to try to remove existing user choices, so who knows how long that will last. In fact, they've given me reason to re-consider some options that I had long ago removed from the table (http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=271749).

I'm still entertaining an idle curiosity about what RHEL is going to do with Gnome 3/Gnome-shell and/or Gnome-3/Cinnamon.

Whereas I really don't really know a dang thing about it, and am just tossing unfounded speculative guesses into the middle of the floor, I just don't think some of the bigger RHEL customers are going to get the warm fuzzies over a DE extensively built on javascript. The bottom line is, I don't care how much lipstick and how many pearls you hang on it, Gnome-3/Gnome-shell is still as slow as a lazy blue-tick hound, heavily resource intensive, and a bit prone to breakage.

Cinnamon and/or extensions cure some of that, but I tend to think we're still trying to build us a church on a fancied-up outhouse of a foundation.

[leigh123linux]

I'm giving more serious thought to giving up my overpowering lazy streak and learning how to compile Enlightenment/e16 on demand and just using them.

I don't own a smart phone, and the second half of that is I'm not likely to, so much of that current focus is lost on me. And at this point, Gnome-2, Enlightenment (e17/e16), or Compiz-fusion on something like SL-6 would serve my purposes long term.

Right now F16/e16~17 is holding up on the Fukushima Special (http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?p=1494379), the Traveler (http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?p=1486605) and this HDD in the desktop, but with each useful flexibility/feature they remove from Gnome-3 in place of a twisted iphone®/Microsoft Windows 8®/Mac®-like user experience, the farther away from my little frequented corner of the linux market they get. There's still a pronounced tendency among the Gnome-Gnuts to try to remove existing user choices, so who knows how long that will last. In fact, they've given me reason to re-consider some options that I had long ago removed from the table (http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=271749).

I'm still entertaining an idle curiosity about what RHEL is going to do with Gnome 3/Gnome-shell and/or Gnome-3/Cinnamon.

Whereas I really don't really know a dang thing about it, and am just tossing unfounded speculative guesses into the middle of the floor, I just don't think some of the bigger RHEL customers are going to get the warm fuzzies over a DE extensively built on javascript. The bottom line is, I don't care how much lipstick and how many pearls you hang on it, Gnome-3/Gnome-shell is still as slow as a lazy blue-tick hound, heavily resource intensive, and a bit prone to breakage.

Cinnamon and/or extensions cure some of that, but I tend to think we're still trying to build us a church on a fancied-up outhouse of a foundation.

I agree.


Have you tried

http://forums.mate-desktop.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31

[Wayne]

One wonders if they're deliberately forcing users away from Gnome (or even Linux) to other DE's or even <gasp> that other unmentionable OS... So far I'm happy with KDE (4.8) but wish I had the time to learn how to customise E17 to my liking. Unfortunately, trying to make a living in these hard times since last March takes up more of my time and learning new ways of doing what I can do already has been put on hold.

[davegiven]

One wonders if the handful of people that repeatedly complain about GNOME 3 on these forums will ever have anything useful to say.

[leigh123linux]

One wonders if the handful of people that repeatedly complain about GNOME 3 on these forums will ever have anything useful to say.

One wonders why someone would join a forum to complain about others complaining. :C

[DBelton]

One wonders if the handful of people that repeatedly complain about GNOME 3 on these forums will ever have anything useful to say.

I guess pointing out that Gnome developers have repeatedly been removing useful parts of the desktop and replacing them with playskool icons isn't useful. :lol:

[Dan]

One wonders if the handful of people that repeatedly complain about GNOME 3 on these forums will ever have anything useful to say.That's an interesting point of view. But it's built on a false premise.

Let me try this on on you. If you can't locate and discuss the shortcomings of any particular project, you really don't stand much of a chance of making it any better, or advancing the end product as a whole.

Unless you're a particularly psychic/gifted sort of a rat, any trip through the maze of success is going to locate several dead-ends whilst searching for the path to nirvana. The factor which eventually defines success, then, is the ability to know when it's time to back up a bit and take a different turn. It also helps to heed the advice of Einstein and not repeat the last mistakes over and over.

That being said, the same principle applies to both sides in this false conflict.

I'll let you figure out why it's a false dichotomy all by yourself.

<..;)..>

[Apostate]

I'm starting to quite like the way gnome-shell is set out. What I hate is that in every desktop I've ever used - XFCE, KDE. Gnome 2 even Windows 98 - when I right-clicked something it gave me options to configure. With gnome-shell you're lucky if you get anything at all. It seems like the ultimate dumbed-down desktop experience for someone who just wants to twitter, email and listen to MP3s. And if a gnome shill pops up now and insists that the shell is not designed for the needs of the facebook/netbook generation I'm sorry I don't believe you.

[DBelton]

plus, Gnome developers have now PROVEN that they were wrong.

one of the biggest reasons they gave for the redesign was that menus weren't "productive" so they redesigned gnome shell to use an overview with huge icons.

Well, in the disk utility, they moved functions that were accessible with nice clickable buttons on the main screen to **GASP** unproductive menus, and removed other functionality completely.

So which one is it? Either Gnome shell is less productive, or gnome disk utility is less productive.

[nonamedotc]

I agree.


Have you tried

http://forums.mate-desktop.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31

I will be installing it today. Want to check this out soon. Has anyone tried it yet?

[davegiven]

Let me try this on on you. If you can't locate and discuss the shortcomings of any particular project, you really don't stand much of a chance of making it any better, or advancing the end product as a whole.

Well perhaps our opinions differ on what counts as constructive criticism ;)

I would guess that the number of complaints in this forum vastly outnumbers the bug reports filed. And the vast majority of the forum posts come from a small group of people, most of whom are conveniently already involved in this thread ;)

[leigh123linux]

I will be installing it today. Want to check this out soon. Has anyone tried it yet?

I've briefly tested it and it runs great.

[DBelton]

You must not have ever looked through Gnome bugzilla, then. There have been numerous people requesting things be put back in that were removed, and for Gnome to be more configurable.

Most of the features that people have asked for have been closed as won't fix

[Dan]

I would guess that the number of complaints in this forum vastly outnumbers the bug reports filed. ... Uhm ... Don't bet the farm on that.

[davegiven]

You must not have ever looked through Gnome bugzilla, then. There have been numerous people requesting things be put back in that were removed, and for Gnome to be more configurable.

Ok great!

But despite the many bug reports, you all insist on continually and relentlessly bringing the tone of this forum down into a GNOME hate fest.

This forum is still bearable, but I sadly cannot class your (plural) continual rants as constructive. But then again, neither is my rant...

[DBelton]

Who said they were meant to be constructive?

But, then again, I can't classify the Gnome developer's state of mind and changes as constructive, either.

[Dan]

Ok great!

But despite the many bug reports, you all insist on continually and relentlessly bringing the tone of this forum down into a GNOME hate fest.

This forum is still bearable, but I sadly cannot class your (plural) continual rants as constructive. But then again, neither is my rant... Hmmmm.

Ok ... this kinda makes me wonder ... are you, perchance, part of the gnome-3 development team?


That being asked, and before you post again along those lines, do some homework. You'll find that I am not at all hateful against Gnome. I am not, however, a zealot follower of the Gnome Adoration Society and Blind Activist Group Support.

<..;)..>

(Sorry. Couldn't resist!) <..:p..>

[davegiven]

are you, perchance, part of the gnome-3 development team?

If I were, then I certainly wouldn't stand for the removal of the Shutdown option from the menu :Y

I complain merely because I expected better from a group of individuals with several thousands of posts between them. Instead of fostering an constructive non-inflammatory tone for the forums, you (plural) instead post continual rants against GNOME 3 and apparently openly admit that they are not intended to be contructive.

But of course, why should forum administrators and long-time members strive for a constructive non-inflammatory tone. I briefly forgot that this is the internet. My bad.

[Dan]

But of course, why should forum administrators and long-time members strive for a constructive non-inflammatory tone. I briefly forgot that this is the internet. My bad. Aye. Sad indeed.

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=263949

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=274699

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=272638

In short ... Don't lose your sense of humor in your sense of outrage. <..;)..>

[tox]

if you ask me. i wouldnt mind betting the majority that use RHEL use KDE anyway. Gnome3 will do nothing for the Enterprise server

[leigh123linux]

if you ask me. i wouldnt mind betting the majority that use RHEL use KDE anyway. Gnome3 will do nothing for the Enterprise server



What are you smoking and can I have some :blink:


Most servers dont have X so all this DE ***** doesn't apply.

[tox]

What are you smoking and can I have some :blink:

i dont share :dance:

[arowana]

Thanks for your posts davegiven, you are spot on.

not only Gnome can drive away users; this forum can, too

[Dan]

Bbbbbweeeeeeep!

Sorry, but I've just got to throw a (BS) flag on that play. <..:p..>

If differing opinions on the fedora community user support forum are enough to drive a person away from using the operating system I contend that:


they were either not qualified to use either it nor the forum in the first place,

or have a stunningly shallow and possibly fully erroneous idea of what their computer is for, and what open source, linux and freedom is all about.

Their skin is waaaaay too thin.

They mistake spirited discourse for life-changing contention

They are spending far too much time and personal investment in the on-line forum experience.

Their senses of balance, common sense, priorities and humor have atrophied in the presence of fanboy/fanaticism.

[smr54]

“So, my unsolicited advice to women in the workplace is this. When faced with sexism, or ageism, or lookism, or even really aggressive Buddhism, ask yourself the following question: “Is this person in between me and what I want to do?” If the answer is no, ignore it and move on. Your energy is better used doing your work and outpacing people that way. Then, when you’re in charge, don’t hire the people who were jerky to you.”
― Tina Fey, Bossypants

A book which is full of good quotes. Another that I think could, too often, apply to this forum (and any other tech forum or mailing list--I remember an instance, an old mailing list, IIRC, where someone who started off asking a simple question about instituting parental controls, was asked to justify their parenting decisions to a bunch of strangers who had no idea of the situation).

“Lesson learned? When people say, "You really, really must" do something, it means you don't really have to. No one ever says, "You really, really must deliver the baby during labor." When it's true, it doesn't need to be said.”
― Tina Fey, Bossypants

[arowana]

dont get me wrong, was just thinking about some tense vibes here driving people away from this forum. sorry was not clear enough. just what davegiven said earlier

[nonamedotc]

Wow ! some big words there, Dan. :)

[smr54]

No doubt it does, but I think Dan's statement about taking it too seriously is something to be considered--that is, when push comes to shove, in theory, it's a forum to get technical answers--sometimes ya get 'em, and other times, perfect strangers are incredibly rude.

And yet, think if, after a vicious flame war, you were barred from the forum, sending you to bed talking to yourself about how stupid they are--then, the next day, something that REALLY affects your life happened, such as, to be optimistic, falling in love. How trivial the nonsense on the forum would become.

[Dan]

And yet, think if, after a vicious flame war, you were barred from the forum, sending you to bed talking to yourself about how stupid they are--then, the next day, something that REALLY affects your life happened, such as, to be optimistic, falling in love. How trivial the nonsense on the forum would become. Bingo!

One should never let something so silly as a bunch of inconvenienced electrons drive them to drink in the dark.

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/picture.php?albumid=96&pictureid=1062


...


...


Especially when there are so many better opportunities and excuses.

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/picture.php?albumid=96&pictureid=817


<..:p..>

[leigh123linux]

dont get me wrong, was just thinking about some tense vibes here driving people away from this forum. sorry was not clear enough. just what davegiven said earlier


Well the forum stats don't back up your theory, in fact numbers are up by at least 1000 users per day.

[tox]

Nice Pics Dan


Leigh
those stats, is that when you introduced or started packaging Cinnamon for Fedora?

[vein]

Some people may not like gnome shell, but I have rather enjoyed the minimalist approach. For someone who spends most of his day in the terminal and an IDE or gedit, this is a very functional solution (I have an SSD, so I don't notice any slowdown either way). On the other hand, this may be the dilemma: the developers are tired of maintaining an overly-bloated DE and wanted to re-envision the DE in a way that allowed them to design the perfect DE--for them (I use the term bloated loosely here, not meant to start an argument one way or the other). The world is a big place, and everyone has their own style, their own workflow, and gnome shell can't cater to that. If they want to do that, they would have to refactor a lot of code and the design along with adding in the features, and this may be too daunting now. Maybe if enough people are willing to get involved, add to the code base, etc. then this can happen. Their has to be a willingness on the part of the gnome group, but I imagine that they can be talked into this over time...

[nonamedotc]

Maybe if enough people are willing to get involved, add to the code base, etc. then this can happen. Their has to be a willingness on the part of the gnome group, but I imagine that they can be talked into this over time...

I think the problem most people have is with the new design. Even if they have lot of contributors I doubt that is going to change. I have loved GNOME 3 from day one - even without the shell extensions. But, I use some extensions for added luxury. But then, I also immensely enjoy cinnamon - which I have been recommending to quite a few of my friends who were complaining about unity in Ubuntu.

My point is - I think it is nice to have options ... which we have now :)

Also, I thought this thread started out as "palimpsest messed up"? ;)

Nice pics Dan. May be you should teach the cats some coding too ...