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warfall
12th March 2011, 03:23 AM
I have to say that i'm more than astonished.

Browsing the various rpm packages from one of official Fedora mirrors, mainly to verify that Fedora didn't shared the current bad taste from ubuntu or opensuse to name few, and allow installation of OpenOffice (the release that works, not the buggy fork without database, python or java binding; and worst the impolite fork), i hadn't found any thing excepted: openoffice.org-diafilter, openoffice.org-ooolatex and openoffice.org-voikko. Clearly insufficient.

Too bad, naively i was thinking that open source was about choice, but very curiously a "mysterious" reason makes that they are countless of useless text editors, countless of useless wordprocessor or spreadsheet (here i'm particularly thinking about koffice), but no OpenOffice.

Obviously Fedora and associated participants can choose which packages they embed or not.

I think the best and the more appropriated will be to conclude my little speech without any salutation

kurtdriver
12th March 2011, 03:49 AM
In F14? I've got it on my laptop

---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 PM ----------

Just type yum search openoffice

kurtdriver
12th March 2011, 03:51 AM
============================= Matched: openoffice ==============================
openoffice.org-base.x86_64 : Database frontend for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-base-core.x86_64 : Database GUI libraries for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-brand.x86_64 : Core brand for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-bsh.x86_64 : BeanShell support for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-calc.x86_64 : OpenOffice.org Spreadsheet Application
openoffice.org-calc-core.x86_64 : Spreadsheet libraries for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-core.x86_64 : Core modules for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-debuginfo.x86_64 : Debug information for package openoffice.org
openoffice.org-devel.i686 : Development Libraries for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-devel.x86_64 : Development Libraries for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-draw.x86_64 : OpenOffice.org Drawing Application
openoffice.org-draw-core.x86_64 : Drawing libraries for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-emailmerge.x86_64 : Email mail-merge component for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-graphicfilter.x86_64 : OpenOffice.org Extra Graphic filters
openoffice.org-headless.x86_64 : OpenOffice.org Headless plugin
openoffice.org-impress.x86_64 : OpenOffice.org Presentation Application
openoffice.org-impress-core.x86_64 : Presentation libraries for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-javafilter.x86_64 : Optional javafilter module for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-af_ZA.x86_64 : Afrikaans language pack for: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ar.x86_64 : Arabic language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-as_IN.x86_64 : Assamese language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-bg_BG.x86_64 : Bulgarian language pack for : OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-bn.x86_64 : Bengali language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ca_ES.x86_64 : Catalan language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-cs_CZ.x86_64 : Czech language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-cy_GB.x86_64 : Welsh language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-da_DK.x86_64 : Danish language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-de.x86_64 : German language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-dz.x86_64 : Dzongkha language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-el_GR.x86_64 : Greek language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-en.x86_64 : English language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-es.x86_64 : Spanish language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-et_EE.x86_64 : Estonian language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-eu_ES.x86_64 : Basque language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-fi_FI.x86_64 : Finnish language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-fr.x86_64 : French language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ga_IE.x86_64 : Irish language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-gl_ES.x86_64 : Galician language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-gu_IN.x86_64 : Gujarati language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-he_IL.x86_64 : Hebrew language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-hi_IN.x86_64 : Hindi language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-hr_HR.x86_64 : Croatian language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-hu_HU.x86_64 : Hungarian language pack for: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-it.x86_64 : Italian language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ja_JP.x86_64 : Japanese language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-kn_IN.x86_64 : Kannada language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ko_KR.x86_64 : Korean language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-lt_LT.x86_64 : Lithuanian language pack for: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-mai_IN.x86_64 : Maithili language pack for: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ml_IN.x86_64 : Malayalam language pack for: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-mr_IN.x86_64 : Marathi language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ms_MY.x86_64 : Malay language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-nb_NO.x86_64 : Bokmal language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-nl.x86_64 : Dutch language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-nn_NO.x86_64 : Nynorsk language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-nr_ZA.x86_64 : Southern Ndebele language pack for : OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-nso_ZA.x86_64 : Northern Sotho language pack for: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-or_IN.x86_64 : Oriya language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-pa.x86_64 : Punjabi language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-pl_PL.x86_64 : Polish language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-pt_BR.x86_64 : Brazilian Portuguese language pack for : OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-pt_PT.x86_64 : Portuguese language pack for: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ro.x86_64 : Romanian language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ru.x86_64 : Russian language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-si.x86_64 : Sinhalese language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-sk_SK.x86_64 : Slovak language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-sl_SI.x86_64 : Slovenian language pack for: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-sr.x86_64 : Serbian language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ss_ZA.x86_64 : Swati language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-st_ZA.x86_64 : Southern Sotho language pack for: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-sv.x86_64 : Swedish language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ta_IN.x86_64 : Tamil language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-te_IN.x86_64 : Telugu language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-th_TH.x86_64 : Thai language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-tn_ZA.x86_64 : Tswana language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-tr_TR.x86_64 : Turkish language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ts_ZA.x86_64 : Tsonga language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-uk.x86_64 : Ukrainian language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ur.x86_64 : Urdu language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-ve_ZA.x86_64 : Venda language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-xh_ZA.x86_64 : Xhosa language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-zh_CN.x86_64 : Simplified Chinese language pack for: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-zh_TW.x86_64 : Traditional Chinese language pack for: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-langpack-zu_ZA.x86_64 : Zulu language pack for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-math.x86_64 : OpenOffice.org Equation Editor Application
openoffice.org-math-core.x86_64 : Equation editor libraries for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-ogltrans.x86_64 : 3D OpenGL slide transitions for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-opensymbol-fonts.noarch : OpenOffice.org dingbats font
openoffice.org-pyuno.x86_64 : Python support for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-report-builder.x86_64 : Create database reports from: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-rhino.x86_64 : JavaScript support for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-sdk.x86_64 : Software Development Kit for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-sdk-doc.x86_64 : Software Development Kit documentation for: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-testtools.x86_64 : Testtools for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-writer.x86_64 : OpenOffice.org Word Processor Application
openoffice.org-writer-core.x86_64 : Word Processor libraries for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-xsltfilter.x86_64 : Optional xsltfilter module for OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-ooolatex-debuginfo.x86_64 : Debug information for package: openoffice.org-ooolatex
openoffice.org-pdfimport.x86_64 : PDF Importer for OpenOffice.org Draw
openoffice.org-presentation-minimizer.x86_64 : Shrink OpenOffice.org: presentations
openoffice.org-presenter-screen.x86_64 : Presenter Screen for OpenOffice.org: Presentations
openoffice.org-ure.x86_64 : UNO Runtime Environment
openoffice.org-voikko.x86_64 : Finnish spellchecker and hyphenator extension for: OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-voikko-debuginfo.x86_64 : Debug information for package: openoffice.org-voikko
openoffice.org-wiki-publisher.x86_64 : Create Wiki articles on MediaWiki servers: with OpenOffice.org
openoffice.org-writer2latex.x86_64 : OpenOffice.org Writer To LateX Converter
openoffice.org-writer2xhtml.x86_64 : OpenOffice.org Writer to xhtml Converter
python-openoffice.noarch : Python libraries for interacting with OpenOffice.org
trytond-openoffice.noarch : OpenOffice.org support for Tryton Server
loook.noarch : OpenOffice.org document search tool
o3read.x86_64 : Standalone converter for OpenOffice.org documents
ooo2txt.noarch : Convert OpenOffice documents to simple text
openoffice.org-extendedPDF.x86_64 : Create PDF with hyperlinks, bookmarks and: more
openoffice.org-ooolatex.x86_64 : Support for embedded LaTeX in Impress/Writer: documents

motnahp00
12th March 2011, 04:05 AM
If you want OpenOffice, install it:

# yum groupinstall "Office/Productivity"

warfall
12th March 2011, 04:24 AM
In F14? I've got it on my laptop

---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 PM ----------

Just type yum search openoffice


This is really kind of you, but this section of the forum is titled "F15 Development The proper place for all things "F15.", meaning Fedora release 15.

kurtdriver
12th March 2011, 04:30 AM
Yeah, sorry, I didn't catch that, and you're right, it isn't there, other than a couple packages. I'm kind of surprised, it's the switch to libreoffice, that's there in F15, I'm installing it now.

warfall
12th March 2011, 04:33 AM
If you want OpenOffice, install it:

# yum groupinstall "Office/Productivity"


Nice to see that someone takes time to explain the basic cli instructions. Please note that your advise will not works without being root before, so it is rather incomplete... :p

Anyway, even after su'ing root, this will lead to the install of libreoffice (and tons of other unwanted things). And this is exactly my question: why OpenOffice.org is not available in Fedora 15 ?

kurtdriver
12th March 2011, 04:40 AM
Maybe you should have put this in the "Rants" category.

warfall
12th March 2011, 04:47 AM
Yeah, sorry, I didn't catch that, and you're right, it isn't there, other than a couple packages. I'm kind of surprised, it's the switch to libreoffice, that's there in F15, I'm installing it now.


While i don't want, and never will, libreoffice on any of my computers, i think that it is a good idea to make a new program available.

But making a new program available and making another one not available is two very different stories.

And one more time this is my question: why is OpenOffice.org not available on Fedora 15 ? (i don't care with "compatibility" excuses, if libreoffice wanted to fork i'm glad for them, but they have to rename the whole libraries, mime types and so on before polluting what was working).

kurtdriver
12th March 2011, 04:51 AM
If I understand correctly, the people working on openoffice who did not work for Sun/Oracle have left the project. You can download openoffice, from Sun, they seem to have a rpm inside a tarball.

warfall
12th March 2011, 04:56 AM
If I understand correctly, the people working on openoffice who did not work for Sun/Oracle have left the project. You can download openoffice, from Sun, they seem to have a rpm inside a tarball.


Of course i can, nonetheless i can but this is always the first thing i'm doing: disabling openoffice in the standard repo, because it is always outdated in distro, and installing it directly from openoffice site.

But this nice little trick doesn't allow any distro to make this particular program unavailable, especially disabling it while allowing a very curious (and even more buggy than curious) competitor, worst: without any sustainable reason.

AndrewSerk
12th March 2011, 05:01 AM
This is the reasoning for the switch:
Detailed Description

LibreOffice(R) is a fork of OpenOffice(R) with the support of the OpenOffice.org(R) community and many major software backers, including Red Hat(R).

Benefit to Fedora

LibreOffice(R) can continue without hampering from Oracle(R) should it decide to kill the project like it did to OpenSolaris(R). LibreOffice(R) is supposed to include derivative works from derived versions of OpenOffice.org(R) such as Go-OO(R) (http://go-oo.org/).

kurtdriver
12th March 2011, 05:08 AM
But this nice little trick doesn't allow any distro to make this particular program unavailable,

Then another repo is need, any volunteers?

warfall
12th March 2011, 05:28 AM
Maybe you should have put this in the "Rants" category.


Certainly not.

Emacs disappears because there is already vi, and anyway you can install it from source. No problem ?

Vi disappears because there is already Emacs, and anyway you can install it from source. No problem ?

KDE disappears because there is already Gnome, and anyway you can install it from source (good luck :p). No problem ?

Gnome disappears because there is already KDE, and anyway you can install it from source (extra good luck :p:p). No problem ?

XFCE disappears because LXDE is more "modern", and anyway you can install it from source. Really no problem ?

And so on...

And that said, i'am a user of openoffice, i don't care with libreoffice (buggy and very incomplete in front of OpenOffice.org: no database access, no python binding on windows - and i share doc between linux and windows, and no java binding, the list is impressive) and i don't want to be annoyed by compatibilities stuff.

This is everything but a rant.

---------- Post added at 06:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 AM ----------

This is the reasoning for the switch:
Detailed Description

LibreOffice(R) is a fork of OpenOffice(R) with the support of the OpenOffice.org(R) community and many major software backers, including Red Hat(R).

Benefit to Fedora

LibreOffice(R) can continue without hampering from Oracle(R) should it decide to kill the project like it did to OpenSolaris(R). LibreOffice(R) is supposed to include derivative works from derived versions of OpenOffice.org(R) such as Go-OO(R) (http://go-oo.org/).



This not a reason, this is an excuse.

First: OpenOffice.org is still opensource and doesn't show the littlest sign to go out there. And then my question remains: Why Fedora makes OpenOffice not available ? Do you understand this question ? I'm not saying: stop with libreoffice, i'm saying that Fedora makes an opensource program, included since Fedora 1 !, no more available in it's repo.

Second: i don't care with senseless considerations upon what Oracle could or would or have to do or not to do... and Red Hat too :p. Otherwise why Red Hat would be so eager to push btrfs in its distro ? Btrfs, another opensource program of the so called Solaris killer: Oracle :p:p. Did Solaris really needed a killer? the processes seemed so natural and basically called: lack of interest from potential users.

Third: Despite all the glamorous rhetoric around libreoffice, this program is still in alpha state, i'm repeating myself: no database access, no python binding, no java binding (all of these are show stopper for macros using those stuff), and very buggy.

quackers
12th March 2011, 05:38 AM
AFAIK openoffice is being dropped in favour of libreoffice.
Political shenanigans, I believe.

warfall
12th March 2011, 06:39 AM
AFAIK openoffice is being dropped in favour of libreoffice.
Political shenanigans, I believe.


Unfortunately it seems you're rigth. Replacing something working with something nearly unusable is beyond my understanding.

The sadness of the story is that libreoffice doesn't show any sign of architectural vision nor they look able to survive more than two or three years. The "community" argument is another joke.

But i like the political shenanigans idea :p, i will do some of my own and immediately drop fedora or any other distro going on this deadly path.

RahulSundaram
12th March 2011, 06:39 AM
Hi

The Fedora Openoffice.org maintainers have switched to Libreoffice along with other major distributions like OpenSUSE and Ubuntu and Mandriva and practically every Linux distribution. Openoffice.org was being patched by all the major distributions for features and bug fixes not getting upstream due to Openoffice.org slow release cycle. Oracle's copyright license agreement policies, bureaucratic processes, poor engineering policies etc. Libreoffice is a fork which has merged all such distribution patches and makes it easier for distributions to maintain it going forward.

Of course anyone willing to maintain Openoffice.org for whatever reasons still is free to submit it to Fedora and do the work but it is enormous amount of work for little benefit and I don't expect it to happen but go forward if you want to.

quackers
12th March 2011, 07:10 AM
Thanks for that clarification RahulSundaram.

Breeze
12th March 2011, 08:06 AM
Do you want to install OpenOffice.Org from yum?
#yum groupinstall "Office/Productivity"

warfall
12th March 2011, 09:32 AM
Hi

The Fedora Openoffice.org maintainers have switched to Libreoffice along with other major distributions like OpenSUSE and Ubuntu and Mandriva and practically every Linux distribution. Openoffice.org was being patched by all the major distributions for features and bug fixes not getting upstream due to Openoffice.org slow release cycle. Oracle's copyright license agreement policies, bureaucratic processes, poor engineering policies etc. Libreoffice is a fork which has merged all such distribution patches and makes it easier for distributions to maintain it going forward.

Of course anyone willing to maintain Openoffice.org for whatever reasons still is free to submit it to Fedora and do the work but it is enormous amount of work for little benefit and I don't expect it to happen but go forward if you want to.



Well, those stories were already the case when Sun was leading the project (and no distro had never switched to the very old IBM fork: Symphony). I guess there is some truth on complains against the project leader, but for now on i'm far more relying on Oracle (***) to maintain this program, and give it a future. But it is a fact that a lot (too much) distros are migrating toward libreoffice. I hadn't observed it for Mandriva, and i'm sad to learn now that one of my three favorite is also falling.

I don't know what is exactly implied by doing a package (i mean inside a distro stream; i'm very often rebuilding or creating rpm for audio components), but it sounds strange that this can be an enormous work for OpenOffice. They provide rpm which install everything on Red Hat, Mandriva or Fedora whatever is the release, the kernel, the release of gnome, libraries and so on.

Anyway this doesn't change my decision: i'm dropping fedora and any distribution going the same way, i can't tolerate that a so called "free" distributor allows itself to exclusively choose one competitor(*) (**) amongst the other, especially after the outrageous attitude of libreoffice team during the fork, and especially while the current state of the forked program doesn't allow it to deliver the full potential of the original, macros are really incompatible, and i guess that very soon the documents themselves will be incompatible (***).

Please note that my complain is not about including libreoffice, but about excluding OpenOffice, at least i hope for the sake of all Linux distro that the same mess that was done rendering pulseaudio mandatory (implying very long and often complicated work to do after an installation to disable this ..... stuff, for using full capabilities of jack and some professional audio on Linux) will not be done here.

(*) Or please explain me why there is so many redundant programs and not this particular one. Ok, i guess that the lib., link, mime and so on were not modify by libreoffice (no more than they were modified by Symphony), so incompatibilities arise if you want to install both; but this is an excuse and not a reason, the job have to be done by libreoffice. In fact Oracle certainly have here the capacity to fill a form for obstruction, and i don't know if i hope or not they do so.

(**) It is funny to obverse that even Microsoft is far more cautious on this kind of topic.

(***) Current incompatibilities on macro, at last curious attitude during the fork from libreoffice, complete lack of direction on architecture (rhetorical mantras around the "concept" of document doesn't stand for architecture :p; including a so called "engine" for spreadsheet, which had failed to run properly since more than 8 years doesn't stand more for architecture :p:p), very timid "support" if support at all from Red Hat or Canonical, and my guess that very soon documents will be incompatible (ok, this point, but this one only, is a personal consideration) are all pointing on what i was saying in the former paragraph: Oracle actually seems to be far more reliable for the future of the ex star office.

According to my opinion libreoffice is already a dead project. To sum up on the incapability of libreoffice to assume its aims (presuming they have one, which is not obvious), very soon they will need to really put something on the table, and because they will be unable to put something useful (read aiming directly at the usage of wordprocessor or spreadsheet) within small time, they will go to the path of "interface refoundation" aka the famous "ruban ala Ms. Office" (which itself is a pure failure). And this day they will be dead for sure, because developers will be delighted by favorable comments from the same band that had applauded compiz and all other "eye candy" useless gadgets, while spending all resources on this. In few words: as soon as libreoffice will announce they go "interface", they are dead. Guess this will be before 2012 :p:p:p.

Eventually, all Linux distros using libreoffice means something like 1.5% of the machines using it, while Oracle will continue to distribute on Windows which is a mere 95% of machines. Of course this doesn't mean that Oracle will achieve 95%, but some countries have an interesting ratio of OpenOffice usage in front of Ms. Office from 10% to 20%, and those 10 or 20 are not done on Linux machine...

Congratulation to "all distros", migrating toward a team without resources, without architects, without any plan for future, without "market" shares and no hopes of progression on any of this point... is either a very courageous or a very dumb decision. I let you guess my feeling between the two options :p:p:p:p.

And all of this because the project leader (whatever it was Sun or now Oracle, so only speaking against Oracle looks partial to say the least) of OpenOffice was, and is, bad. And nobody was smart enough to try to understanding why two very different companies, Sun & Oracle, only achieves a very bad result on managing OpenOffice project ? While a complete office suite is clearly important against the nearly monopolistic leader Microsoft ? While everybodies knows that OpenOffice code is pure nightmare (the only one worst, not sure, being X11) ? While everyone seriously involved in I.T. managing knows that maintaining such a monster implies very dissatisfied developers ? And the only answer is this ranting against Oracle ?

After all why not ? But please, please, do for yourself what you think is good, by 'yourself' i mean as Fedora project, but stop rendering mandatory for the others what you think is good for you only, by 'others' i mean the users. The good news is meanwhile i have found an outstanding distro, at last the developers don't bother you with questionable choice about office suite, seriously, you can install OpenOffice or libreoffice or gnumeric or Wordperfect and even Ms. Office, what is funny is that Ms. Office comes from the same manufacturer that the distro and they don't ask you to uninstall some Ms. Office bootstrap or modify registry to install let say libreoffice, incredible isn't it? it is called Ms. Windows 7... no, i'm joking, i'm going on ESXi :p:p:p:p:p


I want to thank you for answering

bob
12th March 2011, 11:50 AM
Hmmm....maybe I should include a sub-category in F15 Development for "rants"? Please remember that you are not talking to the devs here, just the end users who have no control of the Project. Your points need to be made in Bugzilla for whatever good they'll do.

This Forum is not controlled by FedoraProject, (we're an independent entity) nor is it monitored by the devs except those few who occasionally wander through. As such, your thoughts are appreciated, but not effective.

RahulSundaram
12th March 2011, 01:39 PM
Hi

"Well, those stories were already the case when Sun was leading the project (and no distro had never switched to the very old IBM fork: Symphony)."

Some of the complaints were true but certain things have changed since the Oracle acquisition. Read

http://www.documentfoundation.org/faq/

Symphony is a proprietary fork but most distributions were already using a number of patches from a fork called go-oo

http://go-oo.org/

The Libreoffice change just formalizes something that has been happening for quite sometime (read: several years) already. As far as resources go, Red Hat, Novell, Canonical, Mandriva, several free software organizations and non-profits are behind it and Libreoffice can also merge all the changes Oracle does to Openoffice.org and is already ahead in features.

I don't know what macro incompatibilities you are referring to. A bug report or a reference would be useful. Currently, it is too vague to answer

Software in Fedora will get dropped when noone volunteers to do the maintenance work involved. This doesn't mean that it is excluded. As I already mentioned, if you care about Openoffice.org you are welcome to volunteer to maintain it but the Openoffice.org developers in Fedora have all the made decision to move to Libreoffice and support that instead for reasons I have already pointed out.

motnahp00
12th March 2011, 02:47 PM
Hmmm....maybe I should include a sub-category in F15 Development for "rants"?...

Good one bob. :p

warfall: run yum groupinstall "Office/Productivity" -y to resolve any dependencies.

By the way, if you saw the # sign, you should have realized the need to sudo.

If you want OpenOffice, install it:

# yum groupinstall "Office/Productivity"

warfall
12th March 2011, 05:59 PM
Hi

"Well, those stories were already the case when Sun was leading the project (and no distro had never switched to the very old IBM fork: Symphony)."

Some of the complaints were true but certain things have changed since the Oracle acquisition. Read

http://www.documentfoundation.org/faq/

Symphony is a proprietary fork but most distributions were already using a number of patches from a fork called go-oo

http://go-oo.org/

The Libreoffice change just formalizes something that has been happening for quite sometime (read: several years) already. As far as resources go, Red Hat, Novell, Canonical, Mandriva, several free software organizations and non-profits are behind it and Libreoffice can also merge all the changes Oracle does to Openoffice.org and is already ahead in features.

I don't know what macro incompatibilities you are referring to. A bug report or a reference would be useful. Currently, it is too vague to answer

Software in Fedora will get dropped when noone volunteers to do the maintenance work involved. This doesn't mean that it is excluded. As I already mentioned, if you care about Openoffice.org you are welcome to volunteer to maintain it but the Openoffice.org developers in Fedora have all the made decision to move to Libreoffice and support that instead for reasons I have already pointed out.



Ho, http://www.documentfoundation.org/faq/ (http://www.documentfoundation.org/faq/) is commonly called a marketing presentation. I will no more trust this than a faq, and particulary when this faq says that the competitor is the bad guy and the author the good one :p, from Microsoft, VMware, Oracle, IBM, HP, Red Hat, Debian, {put here your favorite/hated reseller}, {put here the polical party you prefer/dislike most}... the list is so long that i'm stopping here.

Regarding http://go-oo.org/ (http://go-oo.org/) , i'm happy to learn the existence of some hobbyist works around OpenOffice. Alas, i have the very bad tendancy to try using professional grade products (Linux kernel with outsanding libraries like libattr to libuuid, are good examples of professional grade products) before amateurish collections of bugs (some Microsoft products can perfectly match this class).

But i'm proud of your confidence and will friendly provide you what altavista / ixquick / yahoo / google can do better than me: an example of incompatible macro. In fact this example is dear to my heart and more in my wallet, a dictionnary / grammatical corrector that i always use in my mother-tongue http://www.druide.com , and some links to the bug: http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?id=442543 , http://www.vali-lio.ch/erreur_antydote_libreoffice.png . On the other hand you may answer that if i could be able to spell my own langage without error, i wouldn't need such a tool as expensive as Ms. Office alone, and so i wouldn't be worried by the new folly of some distros :p:p.

Unfortunately this is the only efficient french langage corrector available on Linux. I'm also sure that this problem will be solved, i only have to ask to my customers to wait for 6 months, or maybe one little year, before i can send them reports due for tomorrow, or send them with typos, who cares? Too bad i don't have really friendly customers, you know they are the kind using IBM mainframes, what's an horror ! fully proprietary ! No choice... Now i will be able to show them the obvious advantage of open source: wait states garanteed for free :p:p:p.

One more time, the problem is not Fedora (or other distros) pushing libreoffice, no more than making it the default office suite, the problem (and yes, at this time the workaround is very easy) is that they make OpenOffice, which is compatible with what i'm using, not available in standard repo.

For sample when Fedora 14 had pushed D compiler, they hadn't made gcc unavailable in the same time...

Why the hell a good warning wasn't provided (like the switch from RH.8 to FC.1, announced 18 months before being effective, and leaving a full rollout, RH.9, "as before"), and let both available for 2 rollout F15 & F16, quite probably the exact time requested for making libreoffice really operational, if libreoffice survive obviously. I mean, who is now pushing out the cash for all the developers ? Sorry, what was the answer ? Ho, those guys payed yesterday will work for free tomorrow because i hadn't seen any word on this topic from Red Hat, Canonical or other. Open source is fantastic, and my old fashioned IBM's style customers will be really interested by this new method, i think this will completly void the bad effect of the free wait states :p:p:p:p.

This makes me remembering the days (Word / Excel / PowerPoint on Windows 95 trying then to gain customers) when Microsoft rolled out a "security correction" for Windows 95. This "correction" was a modification of the standard heap of w32 libs., which, really very very curiously, rendered only one program no more executable on Windows 95: WordPerfect. This was only curious because WordPerfect was the wordprocessor leader those days, but hopefully Microsoft have had "corrected the correction"... three years later and WordPerfect on agony :p:p:p:p.

Mind you ? I remember clearly than those days, there were a lot of "ranters" who were "ranting" about anti-concurential methods from Microsoft, ho, bad guys ! And i remember that even more clearly because i was owner of a WordPerfect licence (very expensive), and i had dropped Microsoft some month after, because i had already stated this in my previous post: i can't tolerate that the provider of an operating system decide for me if i can or not use this or that program... Who spoke about Richard Stallman ?

Sure, the situation is not the same, Fedora 15 doesn't provide what was provided since Fedora Core 1 without the littlest warning, but Fedora 15 lets OpenOffice running after minimal tweak on the system setting, while the "minimal tweak" is not on the level of a standard user. Anyway here comes the "pulseaudio affair", what about Fedora 17 or 18, when some "genius" will decide that integration of an office suite will be "mandatory" ? (please remember that i'm very serious about the fact that never libreoffice will run on any of my computers, this is my choice, period).

So, it is useless to risk a stomach ulcer for such an incident, especially with solutions available. I had already purchased Windows 7 & Ms. Office to preserve my 180$ Antidote Druide (funny, the "evil" Microsoft provides softwares compatible with my investments, and even better, Live Mesh render my system available anywhere with an internet connection for free, so one licence is sufficient. Damn it, B. Gate is now copying old mantra from R. Stallman), ok this is 200$ but as patches are garanteed for 10 years i can see this as "only 20$" per years, to compensate i can easely cut some donations to open source :p:p:p:p:p.

Now i am interested by your advises for new systems, obviously Linux is compromised and on another hand i absolutely want to try the free hypervisor ESXi (only vi as "office suite" in native mode, no risk there :p:p:p:p:p:p) but what about a companion for W7 over ESXi, i'm very temptated by the ZFS fs from BSD, and Freenas will be on board as NAS. Do you suggest another BSD, or some risky Inferno, or a more serious OpenVMS ?

bob
12th March 2011, 06:21 PM
*sigh* Moved to F15 Rants.

motnahp00
12th March 2011, 06:28 PM
I agree with you on the *sigh* bob. :doh:

warfall
12th March 2011, 06:29 PM
Good one bob. :p

warfall: run yum groupinstall "Office/Productivity" -y to resolve any dependencies.

By the way, if you saw the # sign, you should have realized the need to sudo.


Man you've got a strong point here. I will even not try to say that you're only rigth provided there was no previous export PS1="# " on the console :p.

Shame on me, period :p:p.

motnahp00
12th March 2011, 06:33 PM
I'll put a disclaimer next time for those that have too much free time exporting PS. ;)

warfall
12th March 2011, 06:43 PM
*sigh* Moved to F15 Rants.


Definitely rigth :p

Everybodies know that there can't be any defect in opensource projects, so pointing out what can't exist is obviously a rant. Simple and very logic :p:p.

marvin_ita
12th March 2011, 06:54 PM
But i'm proud of your confidence and will friendly provide you what altavista / ixquick / yahoo / google can do better than me: an example of incompatible macro. In fact this example is dear to my heart and more in my wallet, a dictionnary / grammatical corrector that i always use in my mother-tongue http://www.druide.com , and some links to the bug: http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?id=442543 , http://www.vali-lio.ch/erreur_antydote_libreoffice.png . On the other hand you may answer that if i could be able to spell my own langage without error, i wouldn't need such a tool as expensive as Ms. Office alone, and so i wouldn't be worried by the new folly of some distros :p:p.

mmm... if I'm right you're saying that if an EXTENSION created for OpenOffice doesn't work for LibreOffice is a BUG of LibreOffice? :D

warfall
12th March 2011, 07:35 PM
mmm... if I'm right you're saying that if an EXTENSION created for OpenOffice doesn't work for LibreOffice is a BUG of LibreOffice? :D



Well, this looks like another strong point... but wait a minute, it's only looks like.

If libreoffice is not a full replacement for OpenOffice (and in fact you're rigth here, libreoffice is unable to do that) why distros, and in particular Fedora, doesn't provide OpenOffice anymore ?

Is OpenOffice no more an opensource project or they will change licence ? No.

Have OpenOffice stoppped maintenance or announced they will stop ? No.

So why the hell this package is no more in the repo ?

Eventually you're saying in a modified form the same thing i'm saying from the begnning of this post: i don't care with libreoffice.

And if Fedora is no more able to provide packages that i'm using, obviously i don't care any more about Fedora.

And if every distros are going the same way, i'm afraid that Rahul Sundaram is completly rigth here, also obviously i don't care anymore with Linux. Don't worry, keep happy, no lack of excellent operating systems out there, even free.

motnahp00
12th March 2011, 07:43 PM
OpenOffice is part of the repo, which is why you can run a yum groupinstall.

If you want OpenOffice part of your setup install a DVD version.

---------- Post added at 01:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 PM ----------

By the way, are you a Microsoft spy? You sound extremely disgruntled with Open Source. :mad:

bob
12th March 2011, 08:13 PM
The loonnnggggg goodbye...

Gotta love those people who have to expound at LENGTH about why they no longer will use:
1). Fedora
2). Linux
3). A Computer
4). Air

Look bud, the distro is going the way the devs want it, not the way you'd like. It's a fact and you're in the users Forum, so you're not going to change a darned thing by grousing here. I've given you some hints about where you might change some minds, but you've decided to keep this up instead. Heck, I even created your own little sanctuary for the purpose, hoping you'd notice the hint.

The fact is that Bugzilla is where you're expected to express yourself to some effect. Secondly, insert yourself into the Project mailing list and get someone to listen to you. No? Well then, there's 500 distros out there waiting for you within linux or BSD or Unix or whatever the heck you choose, including Mac and Windows.

This, however, has run on long enough as a purposeless rant. Therefore, THREAD CLOSED!

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