I give up. I'll leave Linux to the enthusiasts.

[Arthur Askey]

Although I used to complain about Windows - welcome back Windows, all is forgiven.

I was already using Fedora 12 and after a lot of nausea managed to get some things working, I downloaded and tried to create a disk using rubbish Brasero for installing Fedora 13. Failed. Tried to create a USB boot version using USB maker software - failed. Tried to use IDD or something not for 'live' for USB - failed. I am not stupid and am PC literate - I followed all the instructions.

Managed to install Fedupora 13 (unlucky for non-geeks) - by burning disc with Nero in good old Windows. Started up - no 3D for my Invidia card - why? No Open Office - can't use built in installer had to download tar - tried to install - lots of geeky gobbledygook. Won't install tried again and again, tried to find help - usual verbose opaque geek-twaddle - really cannot be bothered any more. No wonder people won't pay for this stuff. I like many millions, just want the essentials and I want it to be straightforward. I used to be interested when I was twenty but now I am appalled to see pages of geeky, opaque, so-called help pages. Why on Earth can't we have the essentials installed? Is it because the geeks think that we love learning about Linux? Because THEY do? When people ask obvious questions and want simple answers this just engenders reams of irrelevant complex gush. It really is not that I cannot understand - I can. The fact is I am not interested - it is BORING and GEEKY. Why can't the basics be available and work. I do not want to do all sorts of programming gymnastics.

Wasted morning. Back to Windows; at least the simple things are simple and intuitive. You download a file - it says exe or com you click it - it opens!

I'll spread the word: want to waste your life; try Linux. I hoped that Fedora 13 might be more user-friendly, no chance - that is against the Linux dogma.

I'm so looking forward to good old Windows.

[forkbomb]

Started up - no 3D for my Invidia card - why?
Long story short: complain to nvidia.

No Open Office - can't use built in installer had to download tar - tried to install - lots of geeky gobbledygook.
Huh? OpenOffice has been in the main repos for like... forever. Can't use built-in installer? You mean yum? Didn't feel like troubleshooting a problem or something?

I like many millions, just want the essentials and I want it to be straightforward.
I really feel for you, but if that's what you wanted, the shortest line between those two points...

http://www.linuxmint.com
http://www.ubuntu.com


I'll spread the word: want to waste your life; try Linux. I hoped that Fedora 13 might be more user-friendly, no chance - that is against the Linux dogma.
Stock responses:
Fedora is not the only distribution, so please don't get a bad impression of all of the Linux umbrella based on a bleeding edge distribution with a penchant for breaking.
Fedora is not necessarily the greatest for first time users.
Fedora is bumpy and a testbed for what will eventually be RHEL.
Fedora is a bleeding edge distribution that doesn't always "just work."

For some reason the Fedora Project's web page doesn't actually state these things in plain English (it takes some reading between the lines). Sigh. The website really needs a big warning on it or something to prevent threads like this. Shoulda tried Ubuntu or Mint, friend.

The fact is I am not interested - it is BORING and GEEKY.
Uhh... it's Linux. Linux is usually geeky. :p If you didn't want the geeky side of Linux, shoulda tried Ubuntu.

Why can't the basics be available and work.
But... here's the thing. They do, for the most part. Most people don't run into the sort of problems that made you throw up your hands in exasperation in one morning.

If you don't want to troubleshoot, then no, a distribution like Fedora -- which is basically a bleeding-edge testbed -- isn't for you. But again, please don't judge all of Linuxdom based on the fact that you tried a distro that apparently wasn't for you.

I'm so looking forward to good old Windows.
Well, uhh, have fun with that... I guess?

Setting aside the fact that years of using Windows have taught me that Windows doesn't really always "just work" either (not by any stretch of the imagination), I really understand the consternation, but Ubuntu or Mint should always be the first distributions tried. Fedora really has a habit of leaving a bad taste in new users' mouths, especially when it bumps into a computer it doesn't like.

[kurtdriver]

Hi Arthur, you tried to download open office from their webpage? If I recall the windows way correctly, that is how you install software in windows. I'm actually surprised that open office wasn't already on your computer, I thought it was on the live cd. The fedora way is to type

yum install programname

That's it! Not very geeky in my estimation, it's just a little typing, something I see that you're not allergic to.
You have windows? You typed that up in Fedora.
Shoot! I typed all that and then realized that you're trolling.

[SteveGYBE]

Umm... surely this should have been posted in the "Reviews, Rants & Things That Make You Scream" forum rather than "General Support"I am not stupid and am PC literateOh well, I guess you know better than us geeks :rolleyes:

[stoat]

Moved.....

[steelaworkn]

I have to say this:

If I can install and run Fedora, anyone can. I learned how to run Fedora from the guys on this Forum. They are always willing to help when asked a question. But...no questions were asked, but a conclusion that Fedora and all of Linux is garbage has been reached. (Can someone say "illogical"? Oops, looks like I already did.) :eek:

This is the most helpful forum of all the Linux distributions. It is straight forward. The people here cross reference stuff either back to the Forum archives or to the Fedora manual (yes, there is a manual available for Internet viewing or download).

Anyways, I'm glad to be here. Fedora is not for everyone. And Windows costs lots of money that I don't have right now, but it's not about me, so have fun stripping your hard drive of the Linux imprint. (evil laugh):p:D

[Dithers]

I think these posts are started by M$ employees or bots... I swear I have seen the same one elsewhere with a find and replace distro name. Can we please agree as a community to stop responding?

[Dies]

...
Shoot! I typed all that and then realized that you're trolling.

Don't feel too bad. After forkbomb's post yours barely qualifies as a snack. ;)

[steelaworkn]

I think these posts are started by M$ employees or bots... I swear I have seen the same one elsewhere with a find and replace distro name. Can we please agree as a community to stop responding?

But it's so fun.:D Who knows, he might be reading these posts and realize that Fedora is much easier to use than he realizes. He might even study a little more as to how computers actually work and then come back for another try. He might hone his abilities a bit and realize that being precise isn't all that hard (i.e. reference to install OpenOffice....do #yum install openoffice.org instead of randomly pushing buttons hoping the computer takes a hint and reads his mind in order to install what he wants). :D

[CronoCloud]

I downloaded and tried to create a disk using rubbish Brasero for installing Fedora 13. Failed.

Brasero works fine, are you sure the file you downloaded was an ISO?

I am not stupid and am PC literate - I followed all the instructions.

Being PC literate is not the same as Linux literate.

Started up - no 3D for my Invidia card - why?

It's a philosophy thing, Fedora doesn't include Nvidia's closed binary-blog driver by default. It does include Nouveau, an open source driver which DOES provide 3D support with some cards.

No Open Office - can't use built in installer had to download tar - tried to install - lots of geeky gobbledygook.

You know, if you had installed using the DVD install media, OpenOffice is installed by default. Also, why wasn't yum working for you?

Why on Earth can't we have the essentials installed?

They are, if you install using DVD. (Why the heck the CD installer is still listed first is beyond me.)

Fedora IS easy...I'm no programmer and have had few troubles with it.

Ron Rogers Jr. (CronoCloud)

[perfectpete216]

OK buddy, you have to clam down. OpenOffice doesn't come with the LiveCD, you have to remove and reinstall Office/Productivity, but if you just get the installer, it is installed with Administrative bonuses. Linux is usually geeky cause Fedora is bleeding edge, and it has Terminal, which does most of the work in Fedora because that how it was made, for us geeks. If you wanted a basic and easy to use Linux system, you should have tried either Linux Mint or Ubuntu, they are simple and easy to use, with most basic applications out of the box. If you had issues with Fedora, you could just switch to that. But clearly you want to be with Windows, so be with Windows and be happy. But don't hate Linux because of one bad experience with one distro.

[GoinEasy9]

Geez, how hard is clicking on Add/Remove Software and looking for OpenOffice, then hitting the install button. No one is really that stupid, and only one post, which means that he/she/it never even asked anyone for help. I've seen an increase in the number of Microsoft FUD posts recently. I guess 'ol Steve is starting to get worried, now that Android, Meego etc., are becoming big deals. Linux Today is pointing to more and more short articles about how Linux security sucks etc. I guess we should prepare for more of this.
BTW - If your a real person and not a bot...Your NOT pc literate.

[bob]

I won't bother to defend Fedora and/or linux in general. You made a wrong choice with Fedora if you wanted things 'easy' and 'just works". That's Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS or Ubuntu. Those are what would have pleased you and every problem you've mentioned would have been handled.

We're not geeks, by and large. I'm a retired banker who got a bit bored with Windows a few years ago and decided to play elsewhere. After not using Windows for over 5 years, THAT OS is difficult for me. Nothing's where I expect it and the lack of centralized updates or downloads is a PITA. Doesn't mean that Windows is bad, but it's "different" and a bit too geeky for my taste.

[perfectpete216]

^Agreed, it's really your own fault for having a bad experience.

Hell, I'm 13 years old, I started with Ubuntu Karmic because Windows 7 was so unstable for me, and it became more unstable, and I moved to Fedora 13, I use it every day, I recently had it with btrfs but now it's on ext4. You aren't PC Literate, if you were it would be child's play to work with Linux. It is to me, I never worked with anything as stable and simple as Fedora Linux.

[Arthur Askey]

Originally Posted by Dithers View Post
I think these posts are started by M$ employees or bots... I swear I have seen the same one elsewhere with a find and replace distro name. Can we please agree as a community to stop responding?

The responses of several of you (with a couple of exceptions re. parts of posts) actually make you look like a very precious and defensive group, so yes, it would be better if you did not respond. You show yourselves in a very bad light.

There are some very telling remarks like this that indicate why Linux will remain the preserve of the enthusiasts. I believe that for many Linuxists it is more like a religion - certainly a dogma. If someone criticises Linux then they are accused of being part of some evil plot by Microsoft. Microsoft is a nasty multinational corporation and American - boo! I was accused of being a troll - I didn't know what that was! I had to look it up! Of course, anyone who criticises their religion must be evil and bogus. Because it is an exclusive dogma/religion then it will never accept normal people's frustration as being genuine; consequently it will never become easy to use and always be be for a defensive and rather precious group whose raison d'etre is tinkering with the complexities and anomalies of Linux.

No Open Office - can't use built in installer had to download tar - tried to install - lots of geeky gobbledygook.


Response: Huh? OpenOffice has been in the main repos for like... forever. Can't use built-in installer? You mean yum? Didn't feel like troubleshooting a problem or something?

Many of these Linux evangelists cannot imagine that the great majority of people just want something to work and do not accept that troubleshooting is inevitable and the reluctance to troubleshoot is something to be condemned.

I am sure my post ruffled the feathers of the extremists who are wont to believe in the perfection of Linux and the evil intentions of those who would criticise it. I am sure that there are plenty of sensible people who did not respond or responded reasonably like parts of forkbomb's post.

I just feel that Linux hasn't grown up yet - it's motivated by a great deal of juvenile single-mindedness: everyone else has to think as the Linux enthusiasts do.

That's OK but please don't pretend that it can ever replace well-designed, user-friendly platforms that do not assume that we want to waste our time with the minutiae of your dogma.

Of course, I'm employed by Microsoft or I'm a nasty anti-Linux bot or something. Don't respond to this post - don't be drawn into this evil web. Well I suppose you have to develop some sort of exciting conspiracies when you spend a large part of your life on your own in a dark room tinkering with Linux.

[ppesci]

Arthur:

But you never asked on this forum for help, and now you use your first post to tell us you are leaving when nobody knows you were here :).

Anyway, Good Bye.

[Dan]

*Dan pulls up a chair, and gets a bag of popcorn.*

This should prove interesting. Have a go at it guys ... but remember, if it gets nasty, it will be closed and the perpetrators dealt with -- harshly.

And, for what it's worth, it might also be enlightening to remember that the spark of truth can frequently be found in the most unpleasant of places.

[Dies]

*Dan pulls up a chair, and gets a bag of popcorn.*

This should prove interesting.
...

I doubt it. :(

ppesci had to go and ruin it by using logic...

:D

[bob]

Arthur, you have to realize that you were the one who threw the first punch here. Please re-read your opening post and see if it doesn't sound just a bit hostile to you.

And, before you go away thinking that you've had enough of linux and see it's faults plainly, please take the time to burn a Live CD of Ubuntu or Linux Mint, then give that a fair trial. You don't have to install it, just use it for awhile and see if it does what you expect.

Really, you've just decided that we're all some weird, basement dwellers or kids who code for kicks. However, I'm about to turn 65, never touched linux until retirement and have a wife, 4 kids, 5 grandkids, many hobbies and interests well beyond this keyboard. I can't code, never took a course, yet I can manage quite well with Fedora, Ubuntu and many other distros. They're really quite simple to understand if you give it a chance.

That said, I believe that your mind is made up and you've formed your set opinion of us. Therefore, I'll simply add my "goodbye and good luck" to the others.

[GoinEasy9]

Hey everybody, Arthur's not a bot. And, he wants to turn on his computer and everything will be magically there. He states he's computer literate but doesn't know how to look at a menu. IF indeed that's true. So, he's not a bot, just a troll. A troll that really hasn't tried Fedora or Linux for that matter at all, because if he had, he wouldn't be coming back here telling us that OpenOffice, one of the easiest to install Linux apps, threw him for a loop. I say Mr. Ballmer gave him a coupon for an Xbox and a script.

[stoat]

I believe that for many Linuxists it is more like a religion Amen......

[Dan]

Hallelujah!

[GoinEasy9]

Ramen....

Geez 10 characters?

[Dan]

Yeah ... ten. Bummer, huh?

[GoinEasy9]

Well, if you would have shared the popcorn the other day, I wouldn't have had to feed the troll today. Double bummer.

[pete_1967]

Was great knowing you, bye bye.

[Dan]

Who didn't share?!

All you had to do was get past the cat.

http://www.zyloo-enterprises.com/graphics/nasty-cat.jpg

... all twenty pounds of him.

<..:eek:..>

[GoinEasy9]

Alas poor Jouric, we didn't know him well, didn't want to.

---------- Post added at 01:05 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM CDT ----------

Cat? That's a mean lookin' pussy.

[forkbomb]

Praise the Linus and pass the ammunition?

Anywho, I do think it's kinda sad that several folks around here immediately assumed that Arthur's trolling on behalf of Microsoft or <insert conspiracy theory here>. I don't think he is. On the other hand, it's frustrating to see that the OP leveled the old "Linux is a religion" cannon in response. God, that's tired stuff.

Arthur, I really think you'd be better off with Ubuntu or Mint if you want something that "just works." Nothing is guaranteed to just work. Ever. Anybody who's computer literate knows this. But as far as Linux distros go, Ubuntu and Mint seem to have the best chance.

But I'm sure that'll fall on selectively deaf ears.

Good luck with Windows.

[ppesci]

I'm about to turn 65, never touched linux until retirement and have a wife, 4 kids, 5 grandkids, many hobbies and interests well beyond this keyboard.

Forgot the most important part:
You are a Big Beer Fan.

[Dan]

Cat? That's a mean lookin' pussy.


*Suddenly, the choir falls silent, and even the cricket in the corner fears to chirp. And the camera zooms in on the source of a deadly quiet voice.*

http://www.zyloo-enterprises.com/graphics/cat-remote.jpg

"You got a problem with cats?"


...


...

[kurtdriver]

I can't imagine Microsoft hiring people to stir up flames at our forum. The OP might be mad at the world. There's a guy like that on a cycling forum here in town, posting stuff in the hopes of a few flames so that he can feel self-righteous. Arthur could have posted this in a Windows oriented forum.

[John the train]

Ayup Dan. Perhaps you should change your" I'll get my hat. " line to " I'll get my cat.":p

[Dan]

LOL! I would ... but he's kind of a freelancer. Doesn't take orders particularly well.

[dwightpaige79]

Praise be!

Me thinks Arthur isn't going to be happy with anything...

[John the train]

LOL! I would ... but he's kind of a freelancer. Doesn't take orders particularly well.

Isn't that a definition of ' cat '?:D

[Dan]

... Now that you mention it ...

[stevea]

Many of these Linux evangelists cannot imagine that the great majority of people just want something to work and do not accept that troubleshooting is inevitable and the reluctance to troubleshoot is something to be condemned.

Yes, I would agree that MOST people want that. There are many Linux distro's geared toward noobs and a good out-of-the-box experience. Fedora is decidedly NOT one of then. Even our stable supported half-brother RHEL distro is decidedly for server managers and sysadmins. Why on earth would you choose to try a "bruising edge", high-rate-of-change distro like Fedora ? YOUR choice of distro given your skill level and your expectations is ridiculous.

Many relative noobs do successfully navigate Fedora, but the support community (right here) is a major part of that. YOU failed to use the support community. I still learn new things in this forum every week. If you're not reading fedora forum, or at least searching for solutions as problems arise - you lose.

If you think Fedoraforum is filled with mindless unthinking happy-faced evangelists - it's time you learned to read. You'd find ppl on every topic giving constructive criticism, demonstrating real problems and yes in many cases just whining. For example I'd wager the complaint-to-praise ratio for pulse_audio is about 10-to-1 right now. No one believes Fedora is perfectly integrated, but that is NOT a reasonable expectation for Fedora.

I am sure my post ruffled the feathers of the extremists who are wont to believe in the perfection of Linux and the evil intentions of those who would criticise it. I am sure that there are plenty of sensible people who did not respond or responded reasonably like parts of forkbomb's post.

There are plenty of problems with Fedora- this forum is based on that fact. The extremists, evangelists and perfection-believers are your fantasy. The difference between your posts and the average OP - is that you asked no question, gave few details, didn't want any help, and just presented unfocused criticism. Angry critics who can't make any constructive argument are always confronted with disdain. - has nothing to do with Linux. If go to a Win forum and start complaining about the security, ergonomics, cost, hardware incompatibility, obsolescence etc and announce you are leaving - you'll get the same response. Forkbomb went beyond the call of duty by attempting to respond to your vaguely described broblems and whiney criticisms with technical answers. IMO he is wrong - you should leave fedora and try a distro aimed at beginners.

I just feel that Linux hasn't grown up yet - it's motivated by a great deal of juvenile single-mindedness: everyone else has to think as the Linux enthusiasts do.

Feel whatever you want - I've used Fedora as my main development and office platforms since since FC4,and I have no problems. I would NOT suggest Fedora for a noob, for my 80yo auntie or for a first Linux experience.

The problem is not with Fedora, it's with your misunderstanding of what the Fedora project is about. Fedora is an enthuiasts distro, so YOU came to the wrong place and now you are blame us for your obvious misunderstanding.. I'll admit that after all the pointless undirected whining in your OP you are undoubtedly an expert on displays of juvenile behavior. You still continue to lump all Linux distros together demonstrating your ignorance on the topic.

Of course, I'm employed by Microsoft or I'm a nasty anti-Linux bot or something. Don't respond to this post - don't be drawn into this evil web. Well I suppose you have to develop some sort of exciting conspiracies when you spend a large part of your life on your own in a dark room tinkering with Linux.

It would be nice if it was a conspiracy theory, however Microsoft has repeatedly in the past paid for and influenced both professional and amateur writers to "badmouth" Linux. They have funded numerous anti-linux lawsuits. It's decade+ old practice by M$. Again, your ignorance on the topics you choose to propound on is astonishing.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10145332-16.html
http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/31138
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/06/11/antiopen_source_whitepaper_devastated/
http://techrights.org/2008/12/27/microsoft-shills-aka-te-secrets/

-S

[dwightpaige79]

stevea you just explained why Arthur Askey isn't likely to be happy with anything be it Windows, OS-X, or even a more noob friendly Linux distro such as Mint or PCLinuxOS.

[bob]

I'll see your cat and raise you .... my new friend who showed up this morning. :eek:

[Dan]

WOW!

I'll bet that puts a whole new perspective on staying observant whilst mowing the grass!

[perfectpete216]

I love how Arthur Askey posted this thread via Fedora. Hypocrite much?

[gid99]

The responses of several of you (with a couple of exceptions re. parts of posts) actually make you look like a very precious and defensive group, so yes, it would be better if you did not respond. You show yourselves in a very bad light.

There are some very telling remarks like this that indicate why Linux will remain the preserve of the enthusiasts. I believe that for many Linuxists it is more like a religion - certainly a dogma. If someone criticises Linux then they are accused of being part of some evil plot by Microsoft. Microsoft is a nasty multinational corporation and American - boo! I was accused of being a troll - I didn't know what that was! I had to look it up! Of course, anyone who criticises their religion must be evil and bogus. Because it is an exclusive dogma/religion then it will never accept normal people's frustration as being genuine; consequently it will never become easy to use and always be be for a defensive and rather precious group whose raison d'etre is tinkering with the complexities and anomalies of Linux.




Response:

Many of these Linux evangelists cannot imagine that the great majority of people just want something to work and do not accept that troubleshooting is inevitable and the reluctance to troubleshoot is something to be condemned.

I am sure my post ruffled the feathers of the extremists who are wont to believe in the perfection of Linux and the evil intentions of those who would criticise it. I am sure that there are plenty of sensible people who did not respond or responded reasonably like parts of forkbomb's post.

I just feel that Linux hasn't grown up yet - it's motivated by a great deal of juvenile single-mindedness: everyone else has to think as the Linux enthusiasts do.

That's OK but please don't pretend that it can ever replace well-designed, user-friendly platforms that do not assume that we want to waste our time with the minutiae of your dogma.

Of course, I'm employed by Microsoft or I'm a nasty anti-Linux bot or something. Don't respond to this post - don't be drawn into this evil web. Well I suppose you have to develop some sort of exciting conspiracies when you spend a large part of your life on your own in a dark room tinkering with Linux.

Arthur,

I've been with computers since the 1980s. I have helped literally hundreds, if not thousands of people professionally in my job. I've been a shift lead at a prominent help desk that oversees the resolution of hundreds of tickets from users.

The categoric difference is one's ability to get through a problem, be it the user or the technician helping them is not to be overwhelmed with frustration and to simply give up.

I've met some of the toughest nuts (not meaning crazy, but biased and overridden with frustration) who when attempting to fix their problem I have to first get them to a place where they can talk without bias to some degree (resolving this totally in a short time is probably impossible). In any case, you may not recognize how negatively your torpedo, oh, I mean initial post came across to people who might be inclined to help, right some replies you got may have offended you too.

I can't tell you how many times I've faced customers who take out their brunt of frustration on my employees on shift or even me, Hopefully this is diffused before a customer and technician get into a urinary Olympic. Getting some customers to list the specific actual problem & symptoms and getting past the frustration is another matter. That's where real solutions come.
.
.
.
.
I know some of the more difficult customers like this, and technicians talk about this and are reluctant or shudder to help them because the customer is so negative and wants to dump their frustration. That sort of customer is skilled in sarcasm, and in venting their frustration, but not in calming down and rationally going through a problem when frustration peaks their unrealistic expectations. Occasionally, I've asked them "Is there any chance we can get through this problem professionally? Some times that works. Not always.
.
.
.
.
There's a lot of training help desk folks have to go through on how to be professional with people, and how to be a good customer. Sadly, those seeking help (customers) are not trained on how to be realistic and professional with those helping them -- and not to dump their sum of frustration on those who may be inclined to help them.


And regarding M*soft, Their CEO last year in March said Linux is their primary threat, not Apple (http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_than_Apple). So even though you're stuck attempting to find solutions for your world, the fact is M*soft may not be squeaky clean on the topic of posting here.

THAT ASIDE - your real problem, on the previous page (Bob the admin, and some other folks) wisely suggested to you to try a different EASIER Linux distro that will be easier.

If you are looking for easy, try Ubuntu, or one of the others listed in the few posts above.

H3ll, even Mandriva (http://www2.mandriva.com/) (the only thing the French do well), the unholy union of Mandrake and some other Linux distro is probably easier.

It's your choice, focus on the obvious replies that will IRK you, but yours was a tad negative too. Try focusing on the ones that suggest a different distro for your case it may just help - and consider your post how it really comes across, that you flat give up now and are dumping your frustration and displacing people who might be inclined to help you if you were not so negative.

Good luck on any operating system you use, but if you have this current method of giving up and succumbing to frustration and are more interested in dumping your frustration than coping with accurately communicating your computer's symptoms --- I BET in a few years you'll be posting a similar thread in a M*soft forum.

Oh, I still administer M*soft products, including Server 2003, Server 2008, Windows 7, Vista (ugh, shudder), and Active Directory, aid in OS rollouts for both Linux and Windows and write scripts for enterprise use, and am both a windows linux administrator (but focus more on Linux). While I can administer both Windows and Linux, I prefer Linux. M*soft by the way uses Stornext, a high speed file system that only runs as a server on Linux. M*soft has no high speed file system comparable to Stornext by Quantum.

Reread the paragraph 2 paragraphs up. I wish you luck, and anticipate with your current state you'll likely post in a M*soft forum your giving up with them in about a likely amount of time. Try some of the other distros and tailor your expectations. I mean this without anything negative -- to avoid a repeat of your experience, whatever OS you get, buy support because you can probably benefit from it. Ubuntu (http://www.canonical.com/enterprise-services/ubuntu-advantage/overview), Mandriva (http://www2.mandriva.com/pro/support.html), even Red Hat (https://www.redhat.com/apps/store/desktop/) (if you want their enterprise edition) and M*soft t3chnet (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/ms788697.aspx) or Apple with 1 to 1 support (http://www.apple.com/retail/onetoone/), offer technical support as a purchase.

[stevea]

stevea you just explained why Arthur Askey isn't likely to be happy with anything be it Windows, OS-X, or even a more noob friendly Linux distro such as Mint or PCLinuxOS.

Probably true - BUT, I do think there is a jot of blame on the Fedora side of the ledger.

If anyone bothered to read and understand the fedora project page, or if they read this forum for a while,or if they read any of the thousand distro reviews, then they would realize that owning Fedora is a bit like owning a tractor - you WILL at times become the mechanic, the hydraulics expert, and welder and the safety engineer. Yes Fedora mostly "just works" - but with constant changes come a stream of rough edges. I wish I had a good history but Fedora has gone through a series of problems in it's long history - usb compatibility, X11 changes, libata, network driver changes, the udevd switchover, the nearly gone NetworkManager headaches, several waves of audio headaches .... If you aren't having a problem with Fedora, then try a "yum update" - is the rule.

So I used to wave off all Linux noobs from Fedora, thinking they would generally have a happier experience at Ubuntu and then after a season in boot camp could choose Fedora if it met their needs. I used to recite horror stories to them. In recent releases - say since F9, Fedora is clean enough than many noobs who appreciate the model and are modestly tech savvy can manage it. Sadly a lot of very inexperienced ppl try and fail and have a bad experience.

So I'm still in the camp that wants a chapter in the installation notes ... just before the hardware requirements section there should be an "operator requirements" section. A "You must be this tall to take this ride", generic disclaimer sort of thing.

[gid99]

deleted, duplicate post whoops.

[smr54]

@Bob....not necessarily...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/06/060613-cat-bear.html

[Dan]

ROTFL!

Now that's what I call having a bad cattitude! Claw-less no less! <..:D..>

[DavidMcCann]

Here's a post from the Ubuntu forum:

I HAVE tried and tried again, but I am getting more and more fed up with Ubuntu. Ubuntu may think itself the greatest thing since sliced bread but it has to become CONSIDERABLY more user friendly before it can ever consider itself or it's contempories sucessors to Microsoft. Here is one person who is returning to Windows for ease of use. Goodbye and DELETE.

They get everywhere, don't they? :rolleyes:

[xuniltoor]

Well Arthur, Im not usually with the "your a troll crowd". It reminds me of the old Salem witchcraft hysteria/paranoia trials. In this case I'm with them because your post started out somewhat sensible and ended up child like in nature. I dont really think your a troll you simply didn't ask for help, you got frustrated and now you look like a troll. Of course I think some of the crowd are being self indulgent with a shark like circling for a taste of your naivety. Not having been a pack runner myself I can relate to some of what you say, but as a screaming umpire once told me as I slid in to 3rd, YOUR OUTA THERE!

[mwesten]

Yep, Linux is pretty awful. I'm a long-time Windows guy, and was a DOS guy before that. Now, I run Mint 8 right off the Live CD on one of my boxes, and it works great. All my videos and mp3s play, Firefox is there, and so is OpenOffice if I need it. I have Karmic on a P3-600 with 256MB RAM, on-board video, and a widescreen display. Somehow, even that old boat anchor still actually works, and no hacking was necessary to make it so. Then I have my F12/F13 box where I've burned many CDs & DVDs perfectly with Brasero. Just terrible...

Windows works fine for me too, but I'm tired of M$, and all their software protection crap, privacy issues, viruses, etc. So far, Linux has been working well for me, and I'm sticking with it. :cool:

[dtpucci]

Although I used to complain about Windows - welcome back Windows, all is forgiven.



Back to Windows; at least the simple things are simple and intuitive. You download a file - it says exe or com you click it - it opens!

I'll spread the word: want to waste your life; try Linux. I hoped that Fedora 13 might be more user-friendly, no chance - that is against the Linux dogma.

I'm so looking forward to good old Windows.

That isn't all that opens sometimes when you click an .exe or .com file!

[dwightpaige79]

Although I used to complain about Windows - welcome back Windows, all is forgiven.

I was already using Fedora 12 and after a lot of nausea managed to get some things working, I downloaded and tried to create a disk using rubbish Brasero for installing Fedora 13. Failed. Tried to create a USB boot version using USB maker software - failed. Tried to use IDD or something not for 'live' for USB - failed. I am not stupid and am PC literate - I followed all the instructions.

Managed to install Fedupora 13 (unlucky for non-geeks) - by burning disc with Nero in good old Windows. Started up - no 3D for my Invidia card - why? No Open Office - can't use built in installer had to download tar - tried to install - lots of geeky gobbledygook. Won't install tried again and again, tried to find help - usual verbose opaque geek-twaddle - really cannot be bothered any more. No wonder people won't pay for this stuff. I like many millions, just want the essentials and I want it to be straightforward. I used to be interested when I was twenty but now I am appalled to see pages of geeky, opaque, so-called help pages. Why on Earth can't we have the essentials installed? Is it because the geeks think that we love learning about Linux? Because THEY do? When people ask obvious questions and want simple answers this just engenders reams of irrelevant complex gush. It really is not that I cannot understand - I can. The fact is I am not interested - it is BORING and GEEKY. Why can't the basics be available and work. I do not want to do all sorts of programming gymnastics.

Wasted morning. Back to Windows; at least the simple things are simple and intuitive. You download a file - it says exe or com you click it - it opens!

I'll spread the word: want to waste your life; try Linux. I hoped that Fedora 13 might be more user-friendly, no chance - that is against the Linux dogma.

I'm so looking forward to good old Windows.

It sounds like you may be looking for something like Linux Mint, or PCLinuxOS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCLinuxOS

http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major

According to the distribution, Linux Mint is the 4th most widely used home operating system in the World behind Microsoft Windows, Apple Mac OS and Ubuntu. Among Distrowatch readers, Linux Mint has 3 times more users than competing distributions openSUSE and Fedora, 3.8 times more users than Mandriva, yet 3.8 times fewer users than Ubuntu.[

Go to their respective websites:

http://www.linuxmint.com/

http://www.pclinuxos.com/

and see what they offer. These are the distros that are the most user friendly. Ergo easiest to navigate for users new to Linux.:)

My understanding is that both have useful and helpful communities as well.:D

[Dan]

Ok, Bob. I'll see your silly little teddy bear, and raise you one of the meanest and most feared critters in all of northeast Texas.

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/picture.php?albumid=96&pictureid=717

Yeah. They're just as evil as they look.

[bob]

Yep, that bugger gives me the shivers. Hornets are no buddies of mine and definitely not as cute as Yogi Bear.

Yogi was an early visitor to our yard this morning and totalled a couple of bird feeders before leaving...the first time. He came back twice more before heading off a few hundred yards to join his Big Buddy who sent the gawkers running for their cars. Big Buddy probably topped 400 lbs.

Turns out our friend was relocated from Saranac Lake due to problems with the residents down there. He was dropped off quite a few miles out, but made his way to our humble abode in time for lunch. The DEC rep says that they're trying to re-educate him to live in the wild, rather than off trash and bird feeders. Gee, Thanks! Appreciate your efforts there! Six million acres out there in the Forever Wild and you drop him off near our doorstep. Love it!

Anyhow, our bird seed is now relocated several miles away, so the temptation to snack will be less tomorrow....I hope.

[Dan]

Hmmmm.

I just gotta ask. Were these the real birds you were feeding, or the ones with the big brown eyes and big ears? <..:eek:..>

[bob]

Oh, the "brown Jays"? Nope, these were grosbeaks, bluejays, mourning doves, robins and chickadees. Brown Jays prefer corn...and our yard plantings, although the bird feeders are also fair game if they need a quick snack.

[Dan]

Just as long as your brown jays don't become a quick snack for Yogi and company. <..:eek:..>

[mh3rn4nd3z3]

lol. I love these threads.

Thanks, Arthur Askey :)

[stoat]

We're about to lose someone back to Windows. And you all are lol-ing and talking about cats, bears, and bugs. I think we should stop and pray about this.

P.S.: That bear-up-the-tree thing at nationalgeographic.com locked up my Internet Explorer. Seriously. I had to retype this.

[joe.pelayo]

We're about to lose someone back to Windows. And you all are lol-ing and talking about cats, bears, and bugs. I think we should stop and pray about this.

P.S.: That bear-up-the-tree thing at nationalgeographic.com locked up my Windows Explorer. Seriously. I had to retype this.
It's better for Linux to have quality users, rather than a huge quantity.

Thanks,
Joe.

[joe.pelayo]

Ok, Bob. I'll see your silly little teddy bear, and raise you one of the meanest and most feared critters in all of northeast Texas.

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/picture.php?albumid=96&pictureid=717

Yeah. They're just as evil as they look.
What's the name of that bug, Dan? It looks fearsome.

Thanks,
Joe.

[stoat]

It's better for Linux to have quality users, rather than a huge quantity.Well, okay. But that's just going make the master plan to dominate the world take much longer. I say we go for more low quality quantity.

[tox]

Although I used to complain about Windows - welcome back Windows, all is forgiven.

I was already using Fedora 12 and after a lot of nausea managed to get some things working, I downloaded and tried to create a disk using rubbish Brasero for installing Fedora 13. Failed. Tried to create a USB boot version using USB maker software - failed. Tried to use IDD or something not for 'live' for USB - failed. I am not stupid and am PC literate - I followed all the instructions.

Managed to install Fedupora 13 (unlucky for non-geeks) - by burning disc with Nero in good old Windows. Started up - no 3D for my Invidia card - why? No Open Office - can't use built in installer had to download tar - tried to install - lots of geeky gobbledygook. Won't install tried again and again, tried to find help - usual verbose opaque geek-twaddle - really cannot be bothered any more. No wonder people won't pay for this stuff. I like many millions, just want the essentials and I want it to be straightforward. I used to be interested when I was twenty but now I am appalled to see pages of geeky, opaque, so-called help pages. Why on Earth can't we have the essentials installed? Is it because the geeks think that we love learning about Linux? Because THEY do? When people ask obvious questions and want simple answers this just engenders reams of irrelevant complex gush. It really is not that I cannot understand - I can. The fact is I am not interested - it is BORING and GEEKY. Why can't the basics be available and work. I do not want to do all sorts of programming gymnastics.

Wasted morning. Back to Windows; at least the simple things are simple and intuitive. You download a file - it says exe or com you click it - it opens!

I'll spread the word: want to waste your life; try Linux. I hoped that Fedora 13 might be more user-friendly, no chance - that is against the Linux dogma.

I'm so looking forward to good old Windows.
instead of giving up on Fedora an jumping back to windows, why not give Ubuntu or other distro's a go. Fedora is not a Newbs friendly distro

[joe.pelayo]

Well, okay. But that's just going make the master plan to dominate the world take much longer. I say we go for more low quality quantity.
I don't know about that, but in the case of an army it is more convenient to have well trained, equipped, and organized troops (which could be assembled in commandos for example) even if they are not too numerous, than to have a vast amount of poorly trained ones (they could certainly outnumber the enemy, true, but they would eventually get killed due to poor organization).

I don't want to sound 'elitist' but there is a reason most people 'prefer' MS products and stay with them even when faced with a better choice.

Thanks,
Joe.

[stoat]

instead of giving up on Fedora an jumping back to windows, why not give Ubuntu or other distro's a go. Fedora is not a Newbs friendly distroIt's too late for sensible advice now. We're on page 5. We could plan a bank robbery back in here now.

[Dan]

What's the name of that bug, Dan? It looks fearsome.

Technically, it's a paper wasp called "red wasp", Polistes carolina (Linnaeus) (Hymenoptera: Vespidae)

Locally it's called, "YOWCHIE! HOLY CR*P! WHAT THE !&%$*^&*#@#! WAS THAT!"

[stoat]

I get logged out of fedoraforum.org often when I use Windows XP. What's going on here? I think fedoraforum.org is trying to make me reboot into Fedora against my will.

[Dan]

*Snicker!*

Hey Bob! It's working! <..:p..>

[Dan]

It's too late for sensible advice now. We're on page 5. We could plan a bank robbery back in here now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus_Bank_Robbery

[dwightpaige79]

Technically, it's a paper wasp called "red wasp", Polistes carolina (Linnaeus) (Hymenoptera: Vespidae)

Locally it's called, "YOWCHIE! WHAT THE !&%$*^&*#@#! WAS THAT!".

As someone in relative proximity to Paris yes you want to give those a wide berth... That would be Paris, Texas. Great movie by the same name.

Wow. Why does spell check in Firefox default me to English/Zimbabwe. Interesting. New Orleans /Zimbabwe? I'd actually like to go to Zimbabwe if I could afford it. Currently I'm lucky to make it to Mississippi or Georgia. That's where family is... :)

[tox]

It's too late for sensible advice now. We're on page 5. We could plan a bank robbery back in here now.

i wouldnt say its to late, he'll still get the emails from his thread he made

[mh3rn4nd3z3]

What's the name of that bug, Dan? It looks fearsome.


I don't know, but i'm going to use ABRT to report it :p

[forkbomb]

Man, bugs are the worst. I got bit by a horsefly today.

Angling sure is hard work.

[John the train]

Technically, it's a paper wasp called "red wasp", Polistes carolina (Linnaeus) (Hymenoptera: Vespidae)

Locally it's called, "YOWCHIE! HOLY CR*P! WHAT THE !&%$*^&*#@#! WAS THAT!"

A good mascot for Bugzilla?;)

[Lord Honk]

as you may see from my post count, I'm relatively new to Fedora (albeit there was little need for me to say something, most people know most things better than me :D ).

I've switched from Vista(tho still dual-booting due to some uni-related programs that don't really work with linux or wine) about half a year ago, and maybe it's just because I was attracted by the challenge of not really knowing what I was getting into, but I somehow manage to get along. Mind you, after a LOT of troubles with e.g. the nvidia drivers etc.

Anyway, I thought if nothing else then I could at least share with you that I am a happy Fedora user and thankful for all the advice I've gotten around here.

Maybe, no, actually I'm sure Arthur had a point, Fedora isn't run of the mill OS that just WORKS, I think of it as the price you pay for the freedom you're given. I just like tinkering, and maybe that's a requirement to really enjoy Fedora :)

[MEX]

... it's Linux. Linux is usually geeky. :p If you didn't want the geeky side of Linux, shoulda tried Ubuntu...I 2nd that !

Just go to http://www.ubuntu.com/ and CLICK on the banner to download UBUNTU 10.04 LTS ... not only wont you get flamed in the Fedora forums anymore, you also get a Linux which is more like that what YOU WANT !

Even for thouse TOO STUPID to download & burn a CD themself, Ubuntu is offering FREE CD !
Just look at their SHIPIT program: https://shipit.ubuntu.com/
... I was accused of being a troll - I didn't know what that was! I had to look it up! ...Actually you are even WORSE THAN A TROLL ... you are a n00b ( newbie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbie) ) :p

Just follow the advise of FORKBOMB and get UBUNTU 10.04 (http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download) LTS !
OR tell us from which Manufacturer you got which modell of computer, IF you are still interested in using F13 on it !

MfG, MEX

PS: My troubles with F13 are even WORSE than yours, as my FSC V5535 has the dreadfull SISImedia chipset 771/671 which isnt supported by F13 or the newer kernels with KMS :(
Currently I am not able to use a resolution better than 800x600 and have no 2D graphics support when using F13 ...

[stevea]

The categoric difference is one's ability to get through a problem, be it the user or the technician helping them is not to be overwhelmed with frustration and to simply give up.

Sage words gid99. If I was dictator for 20 minutes someopne like you'd be in charge of the governments the BP/gulf problem. The way people approach difficulties can be categorized as either "problem solving" or else "blame assessment". Frustration - that's just the nature of having an unsolved problem. The potentially productive "can do"/"tenacity" attitude vs the clearly unproductive "who's to blame; let's do some bashing" attitude is a distinguishing characteristic that often seems to define a personality more than an approach to a single problem.

The inability to seek help without 'throwing feces' at the potential helpers is a triumph of emotional gratification over rationality.

I know some of the more difficult customers like this, and technicians talk about this and are reluctant or shudder to help them because the customer is so negative and wants to dump their frustration.

Been there - but that's a situation where the tech support is being paid a salary to eat fudge and still smile. No one on a self-help forum deserves that treatment, or needs to take it without responding.

THAT ASIDE - your real problem, on the previous page (Bob the admin, and some other folks) wisely suggested to you to try a different EASIER Linux distro that will be easier.


Unstated, but most Linux noobs arrive with a load of Windows know-how, and it is nearly 100% useless in any Linux environment. The thought "I know how to do this on Win" is tantalizing and frustrating to the noob. The OPs attitude "Lin is for enthusiasts" is a declaration of his frustration. Examined a little more dispassionately we could claim "Win is for enthusiasts", ppl willing to live without proper network services, without device and file-system tools while editing the mystical registry. It's ultimately the "why isn't Linux just like Windoze" complaint.

H3ll, even Mandriva (http://www2.mandriva.com/) (the only thing the French do well),
Well not to compliment the French, but qemu by Fabrice Bellard is a pretty amazing package that spawned the popular virtualizations., kvm, vbox. I believe he did the ffmpeg libraries too.

I don't want to sound 'elitist' but there is a reason most people 'prefer' MS products and stay with them even when faced with a better choice.
I don't get your point Joe - familiarity breeds complacence ? Ppl would rather suffer with expensive inferior tools than learn something new ?

That would be Paris, Texas. Great movie by the same name.

One of two excellent movies featuring H.D Stanton and Nastassja Kinski. Coppola's "One from the Heart" is an the other.

[Arthur Askey]

Ave atque vale,

Hello and goodbye all,


This the Last Post you'll be glad to know. However, it's no Parthian Shot - quite polite really.

Thanks and sincere apologies to those people who, although justifiably nettled by my unreasonable attitude and vitriolic accusations of Geekism, still tried to be helpful.

OK, I spent hours trying to do what was supposed to be simple and was fed up with Linux and the complacent assumption on the website that it is all so straightforward. As a consequence I vented my frustration on this forum. My comments were not fair on those people who try to help others. I apologise.

There is a little history to this. About a year ago I was continually told by a couple of Linuxists at work about how wonderful Linux was and how evil and appalling Microsoft was. A lot of their enthusiasm seemed to be engendered by a hatred for Microsoft. They exhorted me to use Linux. Let's get this straight: I am no fan of Microsoft, by any means. I believe they sacrificed stability and common sense in order to attach more useless and, actually damaging, bells and whistles in order to attract customers. For decades it was a mess of bolt-ons and marketing trash. Windows 7 is a big improvement, however - dare I say - but too expensive for me.

About nine months ago I tried several versions of Linux and really persevered. I ended up with Fedora 12 because that was the one that didn't create tearing with my bogs- standard Nvidia card. I read the Fedora basics and tried quite hard - I learnt a fair bit but then I became bored and too busy and left off this constant learning process which appears to be a requirement for Linux users.

I had experienced some problems with Fedora 12 and had used it less and less. Consequently, when I heard of Fedora 13, I read about the new features and I thought I would try it. Within Fedora 12, I downloaded and tried to create a disk of Fedora 13 - failed twice with Brasero. So I tried the USB route which is described on the website.

The conspiracy theorists, know I am a bot or an agent for the evil Microsoft Empire or a Troll! (oooh! thrilling! - just like their video games!) so I am not talking to them. However for the grown-ups, here is my experience:

This is what the site says:

1. Plug in your USB media.
2.
Find the device name for your USB media. If the media has a volume name, look up the name in /dev/disk/by-label, or use the findfs:

su -c 'findfs LABEL="MyLabel"'

If the media does not have a volume name, or you do not know it, consult the /var/log/messages log for details:

su -c 'less /var/log/messages'

3.
Use the dd command to write the ISO image to the media:

su -c 'dd if=/path/to/image/file/imagefile.iso of=device'

where /path/to/image/file is the location of the image file that you downloaded and device is the USB media device.


I didn't know what 'my label' was, ('Idiot' I hear from some forum members) so I tried the messages log - loads of info but no device name that I could fathom ('Oh! What an idiot' I hear them sneer again). Found what I thought was a device name in the properties part - 'permissions' of the USB device. Wrote out the instructions in 3. It created a file in Home. So immediately the user is confronted with this confusing complexity. Yet the Linuxists sneeringly blame the non-initiate and say how stupid they are.

The Create USB for the live version did not work. It appeared to copy but the USB was empty. (I can hear them giggling at the incompetence of this 'newbie')

I had forgotten a lot. I did look at my notes from earlier and did try to sort out the problems. This was time consumiong and rather tedious. I ended up spending about 6 hours to achieve nothing.

Question to GoinEasy9, who called me stupid: Where is OpenOffice in the repositories that are in Add/Remove Software? I searched but then, of course, I'm an idiot (sneer snigger snigger) not one of the Linux elite. The repositories are all Fedora 13 and I couldn’t see how to access others. (Off stage: oooh what an idiot! Infantile giggles)

After hours of such frustration the newcomer to Linux (in my case not a complete newcomer) vents his frustration rather irrationally in the forum. OK I deserve to be admonished for that and I am sorry, but, really, being called an idiot and this bot, Microsoft agent, Troll nonsense really plays into Microsoft's hands if that is what you fear. It really looks like a closed little gang of juvenile, paranoid and rather silly fanatics. This image is such a shame for the many sensible and mature members who are not rabid Microsoft haters, have a more balanced, mature view and just try to help people. I hasten to add that I did not have a balanced view when I castigated Linux geekery but I was fed up and I have apologised.

This kind of thing does the cause of Linux no good, if it is a cause:

Hey everybody, Arthur's not a bot. And, he wants to turn on his computer and everything will be magically there. He states he's computer literate but doesn't know how to look at a menu. IF indeed that's true. So, he's not a bot, just a troll. A troll that really hasn't tried Fedora or Linux for that matter at all, because if he had, he wouldn't be coming back here telling us that OpenOffice, one of the easiest to install Linux apps, threw him for a loop. I say Mr. Ballmer gave him a coupon for an Xbox and a script.


Which menu? Who is Mr. Ballmer? This is Kafkaesque! I suddenly find myself amidst all these fervid imaginings of conspiracies and all these assumptions of my guilt. Well, as I said, I suppose these conspiracy theorists find this rather exciting - I've found the same irrational fantasizing among the fanatical Greens. This is what I mean about Linux having this juvenile image.

By the way, I am a highly-developed Human-Mimic Bot sent from the future by Macrohard Inc. to destroy the origins of Linux which is fighting a fierce rearguard action in hyperspace and is the only force capable of overthrowing us. With every interchange on this forum I develop exponentially my affective response in order to enter your minds and make you believe that I am ordinary, innocuous Arthur Askey: a normal frustrated rather stupid Linux newbie. To be sneered at; but not feared.


Anyway, thank you to those adult posters who responded helpfully to my initial post which arose out of hours of frustration (not for the first time) and I apologise to them for its tone and accusations of Geekery. Among the adult posters may I include the 13 year-old Perfect Pete, who, although he called me Buddy and told me to ‘clam down’ did not call me an idiot or spout a load of childish nonsense about MS bots, trolls or whatever but actually gave good advice. May I suggest that a separate forum be created for such adults?

I've tried Mint and it doesn't like my Nvidia card.
As someone advised - thank you - I have loaded the DVD version of Fedora 13. I now have OpenOffice. I shall persevere - largely because I like the speed at which Fedora 13 boots up and there are fewer problems with the internet.

Well, you'll be pleased to hear that you won't hear from me again. (I hear: 'Yippee! Good riddance - stupid anti-Linux heretic!)

Apologies for my initial rant and thanks.

Yours deviously,

MS Agent Bot Troll

alias

Arthur

[Lord Honk]

Well, at the very least he learned something :)

And I know how frustrating text-based directions can be if that's all you've got to go from. Although linux help is usually more competent than microsoft's built-in ("Tried turning it off and on again? [ ]Problem solved, [x]Problem still persists. - I'm sorry, microsoft help could not fix your problem"), I would in most cases prefer a real person to talk with, cause once you've run a tree-line command and linux throws an error that is ambiguous to the initiate you're just about screwed, especially if you encounter it when seeting up your wireless or something xD
Too darn bad that even at my uni there are few people who know anything past the basics :(

Aaaanywho, too bad he got off to such a bad start with Fedora, and, yeah, any OS has it's limitations. Fedora's is obviously user-freindliness (to a degree). Maybe he'll still give it a shot in the near future, I haven't completely lost hope in him, seeing as I started out in about the same position :D

[MEX]

... As someone advised - thank you - I have loaded the DVD version of Fedora 13. I now have OpenOffice. I shall persevere - largely because I like the speed at which Fedora 13 boots up and there are fewer problems with the internet.

Well, you'll be pleased to hear that you won't hear from me again. (I hear: 'Yippee! Good riddance - stupid anti-Linux heretic!)

Apologies for my initial rant and thanks.

Yours deviously,

MS Agent Bot Troll

alias

ArthurGlad that he finally managed to get F13 to do what he expected from it ... I havnt been so lucky with my FSC V5535 and the missing SISImedia support for my SiS 671 graphic chip which still is only working with a resolution of 800x600 and without any 2D/3D support as not even the VESA drivers are fully functional on this piece of **** with F13 :rolleyes:

To be honest a name like "Arthur Askey" reminds me too much to "Arthur Dent" so that I immediatly wanted to shout DON'T PANIC ! :cool:

MfG, MEX

[stevea]

Ave atque vale,

Hello and goodbye all,


So what exactly are you seeking ? I really don't understand the sort of person who would go to an XXX forum solely for the purpose of insulting and denigrating XXX and the people who enjoy XXX. Some odd ego trip you have there.


There is a little history to this. About a year ago I was continually told by a couple of Linuxists [[[.]
....
I had experienced some problems with Fedora 12 ... failed twice with Brasero. So I tried the USB route which is described on the website.[more problems]


So instead of asking a polite question you decided to vent your frustrations on those who volunteer to help others. Brilliant plan !

It created a file in Home. So immediately the user is confronted with this confusing complexity. Yet the Linuxists sneeringly blame the non-initiate and say how stupid they are.

Please show us where you or anyone else posted a politely stated technical question and got any answer even close to calling the person "stupid" or even "sneering". Your constant insulting characterizations of others aren't useful.


Question to GoinEasy9, who called me stupid: Where is OpenOffice in the repositories that are in Add/Remove Software?

Select "office" in the left column and scroll down to "OpenOffice.org Word Processor..." on the left. Check the box and click the "Apply" button.

After hours of such frustration the newcomer to Linux (in my case not a complete newcomer) vents his frustration rather irrationally in the forum.
And you continue to do so up to and including your last post.

On and on - you refer to us as juvenile, paranoid, sneering, condescending, elitist and even create a new pejoritive "Linuxist". Your constant steam of ad hominem and prejudiced, broadbrush characterization of others others makes clear your apology is meaningless and insincere.

Apologies for my initial rant.
Yes, your last insulting rant was so much better.

I just talked to Linus, the Pope of Linux, and you have his permission to leave Linux and stop being an insincere namecalling A-hole (optional). Toodles.

[Dan]

Good morning, Arthur.

No, Linux isn't a cause. It's an operating system. It is intended to be installed ... and used ... on a user's computer. Windows® is too. Both are means, not ends. In short, use what works.

This is also not a complaints window staffed by paid personnel whose job it is to deal with -- or tolerate -- overly aggressive temper tantrums in lieu of polite requests for help ... complete with "pleases and thank-yous."

However, I can certainly understand your frustation. Back in my mis-spent adolescence I had my own learning experiences of losing my humility and my cool -- and beating the verbal snot out of my fellow human beings (whom, in stark reality, my attitude and actions correctly indicted that in my heart, I considered them no more than subordinate tools waiting breathlessly on my convenience and pleasure), and then wondering why things did not go well whence I demanded satisfaction and a solution to my problems.

Probably the fastest way to achieve an understanding about what happened here is to remember that this forum is staffed and participated in entirely by volunteers.

And if it still remains a mystery after that, go actively volunteer for a while. The concept will sort itself out fairly quickly. (But somehow, I suspect you've already been down that road.)

That being said, if you read around a bit, you'll find that this community is highly aware of the shortcomings of the Linux/fedora operating system. Some to the point of active ranting frustration. And you will notice that their frustrated rants are greeted with an entirely different attitude than yours was. There's a reason for that. Bluntly, they earned that right and privilege by cooperative community participation, and treating their peers with respect.

So far, this has been an interesting exchange, but it has also not been very constructive. There have been "learning opportunities" on both sides, as my first post indicated there would be.

And as you've said good bye twice now, I'm going to take you at your word, and shut this thread down. Not much more good can come from it. The frustration is vented, the social sanctions have been applied, the rebuttal has been launched, and the whole ugly baby is now ready to be archived forever, just like it is. Warts and all.

Thread closed.