Back to OSX for now ...

[earthwormgaz]

Just thought I'd share my Macbook Pro experience.

I tried Fedora 13 on it, using the RT kernel from CCRMA for audio work.

I found that the official NVIDIA drivers lead to a screen full of rubbish on booting to the log in screen. The experimental drivers ran the laptop too hot, to the point where you couldn't have it on your lap. Shame, no Compiz.

The two finger tap, essential for using the Mac and right clicking, was really flaky and unreliable. I had to muck about with a touchpad settings program I'd installed after some Googling, and this constantly. I couldn't find a setting that would always work.

The wireless is awful. I sat in the same place and got full signal on OSX, and 20% on Fedora.

Shame, but here's hoping Fedora 14 would be better.

I wish Fedora would work more closely with CCRMA, and I hope they take note what Ubuntu are doing, and fix the ugly looks (upstream, Fedora style, of course).

[leigh123linux]

Just thought I'd share my Macbook Pro experience.

I tried Fedora 13 on it, using the RT kernel from CCRMA for audio work.

I found that the official NVIDIA drivers lead to a screen full of rubbish on booting to the log in screen. The experimental drivers ran the laptop too hot, to the point where you couldn't have it on your lap. Shame, no Compiz.

The two finger tap, essential for using the Mac and right clicking, was really flaky and unreliable. I had to muck about with a touchpad settings program I'd installed after some Googling, and this constantly. I couldn't find a setting that would always work.

The wireless is awful. I sat in the same place and got full signal on OSX, and 20% on Fedora.

Shame, but here's hoping Fedora 14 would be better.

I wish Fedora would work more closely with CCRMA, and I hope they take note what Ubuntu are doing, and fix the ugly looks (upstream, Fedora style, of course).


Moved to Reviews, Rants & Things That Make You Scream (http://forums.fedoraforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=25)

This won't happen.
The Nvidia driver doesn't work (kernel module fails to compile) with the realtime kernel.

[CSchwangler]

I wish Fedora would work more closely with CCRMA, and I hope they take note what Ubuntu are doing, and fix the ugly looks (upstream, Fedora style, of course).

You need to realize that Fedora is not Ubuntu. If you like the look of Ubuntu, then why not use Ubuntu. Fedora aims for different things and thats why I like it.

[Soderstrom]

Did you come back? :P

I've experience some of the same problems the original author of this post mentioned. But what bothers me the most is the heat issue. I really like fedora 13 and it works better than Ubuntu 10.04 did on this Macbook aluminium 5,1.

The only problem for me is the heat and I'm concerned that it do damage to the hardware. Here is my current temperatures and the fan has been running high for several hours now.


[soderstrom@fedora ~]$ sensors
applesmc-isa-0300
Adapter: ISA adapter
Exhaust : 4263 RPM (min = 2000 RPM)
temp1: +36.2°C
temp2: +36.2°C
temp3: +35.2°C
temp4: +37.2°C
temp5: +66.0°C
temp6: +58.2°C
temp7: +64.5°C
temp8: +57.0°C
temp9: +59.0°C
temp10: +63.5°C
temp11: +55.5°C
temp12: +56.0°C
temp13: +34.5°C
temp14: +44.8°C


The current status is low compared to how it is some other times with a temperature reaching 70-75 on the GPU and above 60 on CPU with a fan hitting a bit over 6000 RPM. That is mostly when I watch YouTube. Now just doing some assignments for school so no heavy graphics pushing the limits of this damn macbook :(

Anyone experience same issues with heat? Thinking about applying some Artic Silver 5 because read that Apple shipped many laptops with poor quality cooling paste.

[Min]

Macbook by itself is hot, and running linux on it make it hotter.

67250
57000
56500
31000
42250
33250
33250
31750
33500
69000
59750
68500
57500
65000

That is what i get. I fon't know about the unit though. I don't have the sensors command. (I'm in F12)
I used it with linux for about one year now. So far there I have not experience hardware problem. Well maybe just the optical drive. sometime it hard to write a cd/dvd.

[Soderstrom]

Macbook by itself is hot, and running linux on it make it hotter.

67250
57000
56500
31000
42250
33250
33250
31750
33500
69000
59750
68500
57500
65000

That is what i get. I fon't know about the unit though. I don't have the sensors command. (I'm in F12)
I used it with linux for about one year now. So far there I have not experience hardware problem. Well maybe just the optical drive. sometime it hard to write a cd/dvd.

You can easily install sensors by searching for lm-sensors in the add/remove software application.

I understand the Macbooks are hot by it self, but it's just annoying these machines are bad like that compared to the price you have to pay for one. Regret I bought this laptotop. Well, I keep on looking for some tweaks to make the laptop run better on Fedora 13, but if anyone here knows, please let me know :)

[Bert Rolston]

Hi there,

I had a similar overheating problem on my Dell Latitude D600 which I traced back to incorrectly loaded wifi drivers.
I can't remember the HOW, but I ended up with PAE wifi drivers and a non-PAE kernel.
Once I got that sorted out everything went back to normal.

If you search for some of my other posts you should find the thread.

Cheers,
Bert

[ppesci]

Have a MacBook Pro 17" from 4 years ago. Powered by Intel Core2Duo processor 2.33GHz. The temperatures you report are normal in my machine, even higher if you use 3D acceleration programs (CPU temp about 85 C). The upper limit for temperature for that CPU is 100C, you must to check in your case.

You can get lower temperature if you change to a vesa video driver, but you loss acceleration and in some degree, resolution. If you have a ATI radeon and use generic radeon driver, you will get intermediate results. I am using F10 at this moment, but tested F13 LiveCD that configured radeon driver and results like to me, less temperature and decent performance.

That is my experience.

HTH

[stevea]

This thread interests me. My laptop recently died and a MacbookPro17 (w/ Intel i5) is one of the very few that meets my hardware requirements. I'll be using Linux only on this.

So which wifi parts does Apple use ?
The graphics (GeForce 330M) whcih shouldn't be too hot.
Are these newer ones hot too ?

What do you think of the chiclet KB ?

[ppesci]

Apple has excellent equipment and a very good quality. I am using Fedora Linux for 4 years now. The only problem is some freezing after 1 - 2 days of continuous use. That is because to the proprietary ati driver I think.

I am looking for a replacement soon because the use has been very intensive, but $2200 is very high for me at this moment. I am considering a Dell Vostro 3700 (almost as powerful and 17 inch too) for about half price, or Dell Precision M6500 (much more powerful and expandable 17 inch) starting at the same price than newer MacBook Pro 17". Both machines can be shipped with RedHat 5.3 Desktop OS. I has seen some people with problems using Fedora in Vostro 3700.

Check it out as alternatives. Apple has been an excellent option for me anyway.

I think any Apple machine will run hot because was designed to run a BSD mach microkernel. A more versatile an energy saver design but less powerful than Linux kernel.

If someone has experience with the newer MacBook Pro, please put findings here.

This thread interests me. My laptop recently died and a MacbookPro17 (w/ Intel i5) is one of the very few that meets my hardware requirements. I'll be using Linux only on this.

So which wifi parts does Apple use ?
The graphics (GeForce 330M) whcih shouldn't be too hot.
Are these newer ones hot too ?

What do you think of the chiclet KB ?

[stevea]

[/COLOR]Apple has excellent equipment and a very good quality. I am using Fedora Linux for 4 years now. The only problem is some freezing after 1 - 2 days of continuous use. That is because to the proprietary ati driver I think.

I am looking for a replacement soon because the use has been very intensive, but $2200 is very high for me at this moment. I am considering a Dell Vostro 3700 (almost as powerful and 17 inch too) for about half price, or Dell Precision M6500 (much more powerful and expandable 17 inch) starting at the same price than newer MacBook Pro 17". Both machines can be shipped with RedHat 5.3 Desktop OS. I has seen some people with problems using Fedora in Vostro 3700.

Sincere thanks for your comments ppesci.

The Dell Vostro 1600 x 900 screen is insufficient for my needs. I want a 1920x1200, 1920x1080 or 1650x1080. <WUXGA, FHD, WSXGA+> display. I read many long pdf documents and having 1000+ vertical pixels is critical. I think the common 'HD' screens at 1366x768 are ridiculously UNdetailed. Toys.

I'd prefer a small screen. Ideally 14", 15.6"-ish is great, 17" is my max. 18+ is cartoonishly large for me.

I'd strongly prefer an anti-glare/matte display, but Apple and MSI (with nasty chiclets) seem to be the only vendors since ~2007.

I don't see anything likable from HP, Dell or Asus - their highest-res screen systems are either very hot or couped with bad keyboards.. The Alienware M17* seems like a good idea, but it's reputedly very hot (like the HP 'Envy' series).

xoticpc builds custom PCs on all the major mainboards. Ther ae a lot of interesting uptions there once we get into the mobile i5/i7 parts.

My graphics needs are very modest. Integrated GPU is fine or a switchable low power.
The couple times per year I have to push the CPU performance tells me a 2.4Ghz i5 will do the job.
Low power, 4.5+ hrs of battery is sufficient ideal.

I need a keyboard that I can type real long documents at for hours. Loved my (deceased IBM T42) KB, except there was a little flex on the lower left. The couple of chiclet KBs I've tried are horrible designs IMO. The reviews say the Apple Macbook Pro chiclets are among the best. Ideally a backlit KB like the old T42.

My personal kink - I hate optical drives. I'd rather put a fast/small SSD in the first slot and replace the optical with a butt-slow big backup drive (5400rpm ho).

I agree that $2300 is at or above the point of pain. My T42 cost ~$1850 and frankly I'd be happy with a time-domain equivalent (more CPU, more memory, same display & KB).

Check it out as alternatives. Apple has been an excellent option for me anyway.

I think any Apple machine will run hot because was designed to run a BSD mach microkernel. A more versatile an energy saver design but less powerful than Linux kernel.

If someone has experience with the newer MacBook Pro, please put findings here.

I study various kernels for my job and I don't see why Mach/BSD should be lower power than Linux generally, just the opposite. OTOH Linux Vid drivers are a nightmare. Maybe that's the problem.

Somehow I think that a GeForce 330m shouldn't use a lot of power. Nor the i5-540M w/ speedstep. I don't understand what Apple does for Macbook wifi. Still an i5 MacbookPro 17 should be pretty good aside from the chiclet KB design. Good build quality as you say.

[Min]

If you want higher res in small screen, check vaio (especially z, full hd in 13"), though it even more pricey than macbook pro. IMO chiclet is fine, bit different people have different taste.

[MorphingDragon]

Apple has excellent equipment and a very good quality. I am using Fedora Linux for 4 years now. The only problem is some freezing after 1 - 2 days of continuous use. That is because to the proprietary ati driver I think.

I am looking for a replacement soon because the use has been very intensive, but $2200 is very high for me at this moment. I am considering a Dell Vostro 3700 (almost as powerful and 17 inch too) for about half price, or Dell Precision M6500 (much more powerful and expandable 17 inch) starting at the same price than newer MacBook Pro 17". Both machines can be shipped with RedHat 5.3 Desktop OS. I has seen some people with problems using Fedora in Vostro 3700.

Check it out as alternatives. Apple has been an excellent option for me anyway.

I would highly recommend against Dell and recommend for Sony or at least HP.

I think any Apple machine will run hot because was designed to run a BSD mach microkernel. A more versatile an energy saver design but less powerful than Linux kernel.


I would refrain from talking about things you don't know about. For a start, the proper name is XNU, and XNU is a hybrid kernel, not a Micro Kernel.



I study various kernels for my job and I don't see why Mach/BSD should be lower power than Linux generally, just the opposite. OTOH Linux Vid drivers are a nightmare. Maybe that's the problem.

The message parsing environment of XNU, and indeed the nature of Objective-C itself has some performance overhead compared a monolithic design like BSD or Linux. But the difference is like, measured in cycles. It wont make your computer magically run hot. The only place where a difference might be noticeable by humans would be mainframe computing and supercomuters. Even then you wouldn't use Mac OSX, you would use a modified version of XNU, Linux or one of the BSDs.

[ppesci]

MorphingDragon:

1) There is some reason to no recommed a Detl equipment?. I need to know because I am considering Dell as my next purchase.

2) I discarded HP because in its dv6 laptop series, bios has a bug not corrected from long time ago that refrain users to install Linux. Users only can run Linux in a VM using Windows as host OS.

3) You are explaining about why Linux is faster than OS X, but the fact is we are worried about Linux run much hotter than OS X. My guess is due a kernel design and stevea guess is due to pity Video drivers (that is possible too because I saw a significant temperature variations depending the Video driver used). In your explanation, if OS X needs more cycles to do the same task then OS X must to run hotter, but the fact is OS X run notably cooler than Linux. Have you an explanation for this?.

[stevea]

If you want higher res in small screen, check vaio (especially z, full hd in 13"), though it even more pricey than macbook pro. IMO chiclet is fine, bit different people have different taste.

Actually it's a couple hundred less than a macbook pro 17" similarly outfitted. I've seen the Z series on their website and at notebookreview.com they are getting mixed reviews (but ppl have very high expectations). My big concern is that since I must type a lot of documentation & code I have doubts that a 13.3" system won't have a cramped KB. Maybe not, but I really need to try a Viao-Z to see.


I would highly recommend against Dell and recommend for Sony or at least HP.

I generally agree, but to be fair Sony has a reputation for incorporating one-off hardware that Linux will never support. I think that's mostly a legacy issue but .... , Sony is an Alfa Romeo - plenty of design goodness but leaves one wondering if the hardware will last 5 years of serious use.

HP - some have good KBs, some do not. Build quality seems intermediate, design seems pedestrian. It's a Chevy. ... Except well the HP Elite series with the nice screens are pricey.



MorphingDragon:

1) There is some reason to no recommed a Detl equipment?. I need to know because I am considering Dell as my next purchase.

2) I discarded HP because in its dv6 laptop series, bios has a bug not corrected from long time ago that refrain users to install Linux. Users only can run Linux in a VM using Windows as host OS.

3) You are explaining about why Linux is faster than OS X, but the fact is we are worried about Linux run much hotter than OS X. My guess is due a kernel design and stevea guess is due to pity Video drivers (that is possible too because I saw a significant temperature variations depending the Video driver used). In your explanation, if OS X needs more cycles to do the same task then OS X must to run hotter, but the fact is OS X run notably cooler than Linux. Have you an explanation for this?.

1) I had a High-end Dell for my job (just over 3yrs ago) and I really hated it. It was very heavy, hot, thick, and even tho' the advertised specs looked good, they used some really slow cheap memory & disk in the system that made the performance bad. Even tho my IBM T42 was ~2.5 years older and a tad less expensive, its performance was comparable and the ergonomics much better. Maybe Dells are better now. Maybe that one was a fluke. I would examine the specs and the reviews of the specific model very carefully before I spent my on money on a Dell.

2) If you read the forums carefully you will realize that most BIOSs have bugs. Very few can pass an ACPI test. IBM was the only company I am aware of that did many laptop BIOS revisions. I think Lenovo isn't comparable.- still good KBs on many of the T & W series, but the build quality is a notch lower and the design-tension for business users has declined markedly.

3) I think it's an urban legend. I see no evidence that any of the OSes can't make use of the common power saving features. I know from my job that many of the BSD kernels really don't support the range of hardware features as Linux. That doesn't mean that Apple can't hone their kernel to do so, since they with with a very limited range of hardware.

==

I store-tested a Macbook Pro 17" this weekend and it's much better than expected for chiclet KB. Build & design are good to very good. Overall acceptable - a little large, a little pricey, KB is a step down from IBM, and I hate the Apple powered advert on the back.

What wifi is in the Macbook Pro series ?
Anyone have an opinion on MSI laptops ?

[Min]

Well, in 13 inch you have no numpad /delete / page up/down etc. My point in writing sony was, they have higher screen resolution even in the smaller laptop. I think 14-15 inch of sony would easily have 1600x1050p resolution. Not sure whether they also have 1080p res in larger/cheaper laptop

[ppesci]

I store-tested a Macbook Pro 17" this weekend and it's much better than expected for chiclet KB. Build & design are good to very good. Overall acceptable - a little large, a little pricey, KB is a step down from IBM, and I hate the Apple powered advert on the back.

What wifi is in the Macbook Pro series ?
Anyone have an opinion on MSI laptops ?

In your tests, newer MacBook Pro 17" is running hot?.

[stevea]

In your tests, newer MacBook Pro 17" is running hot?.

Yes this was a new model Macbook pro 17" with an i5 processor, and it was not hot, but it also wasn't under any substantial load. I see the MacPro17 hot issue when I google. That looks pretty bad since the CPU an the discrete graphics are both pretty modest power users.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Apple-MacBook-Pro-17-inch-2010-04-Notebook.32424.0.html

Oh well - maybe no one makes a good notebook anymore !