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View Full Version : Fedora 13 - Prepare for Disappointment


AshikagaTakauji
26th May 2010, 03:01 PM
About a month back, I compared Fedora 13 Beta with Mandriva 2010.1 Beta2. The clear winner there was Fedora 13 Beta, as it only had few remaining issues (most notably the broken KNetworkManager), compared to several issues remaining in the Mandriva Beta2. I've posted about the issues in both forums.

Now, I'm comparing Fedora 13 Final (Kde version) with Mandriva 2010.1 RC, and also this time, there is a clear winner - but now, it's Mandriva. They worked hard and worked out all the bugs, so it's very pleasant to use now (and it's not even the final release yet). Fedora however seems to have passed the time staring holes in the air or twiddling thumbs, as the Final is running no better than the Beta :eek:


KNetworkManager is *still* broken. I posted here about it during Fedora 13 Beta, and it was impossible find a remedy for this. Now with Fedora 13 final, they didn't do anything about it. KNetworkManager is just as broken, so you can't connect to the internet. "Who cares about Dsl users, anyway. Let's just ignore them, and they'll go away already."
=> No problems whatsoever on Mandriva, it uses its very own network manager.
"3D support for ATI cards (R600 and R700) via Radeon driver." - A tasty promise from the release announcement, which sadly turns out to be nothing but hot air. No matter what, I couldn't get 3D and Compositing to work with my R700 card and the Radeon driver that ships with Fedora 13 final, so it's just empty promises :mad:
=> The Radeon driver that comes with Mandriva 2010.1 RC actually delivers, compositing and 3D works fine.
Fedora's Kde integration really could do with some polish, there are still some glitches left. Nothing too major, but it really doesn't make a good impression.
Examples: http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=245659
=> No glitches or anything on Mandriva, the Kde integration is very smooth and polished.

All together, I'm very disappointed with the Fedora 13 final release. This could've been so much better, if only they had put more effort into it :(
It seems the old superstition of the number "13" holds true for Fedora.

leigh123linux
26th May 2010, 03:04 PM
Moved to Reviews, Rants & Things That Make You Scream (http://forums.fedoraforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=25)

AshikagaTakauji
26th May 2010, 03:58 PM
Moved to Reviews, Rants & Things That Make You Scream (http://forums.fedoraforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
Ok, I guess "Things That Make You Scream" fits nicely here ;)

phaedora
26th May 2010, 10:28 PM
I install linux to usb external hard drive. With F12, I had the option to boot fedora or window (which is on the internal hard drive) although selecting the windows option didn't work. But with fedora 13, I don't seem to get the option to boot any other OS!

Trapper
27th May 2010, 03:49 AM
Well, I left Fedora around F10. I found Ubuntu to be much easier to work with and I had very few issues. Wouldn't you know it though, I have just discarded Ubuntu 10.04 for F13 for basically the same reasons I left Fedora at F10. Nobody gets it right all of the time. I guess it's more of a matter what you choose to do ... grin and bear it through the bad times or jump ship for something more seaworthy. I used to grin and bear it. Anymore I simply move to something else if I am not pleased with what I have rather than tolerate it and deal with a massive pile of workarounds, etc. I do always leave the door open though to come back when they get it right. I personally am finding Fedora 13 to be the best current offering out there at the present and I have tried a number of major players. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

marko
27th May 2010, 04:09 AM
I install linux to usb external hard drive. With F12, I had the option to boot fedora or window (which is on the internal hard drive) although selecting the windows option didn't work. But with fedora 13, I don't seem to get the option to boot any other OS!

Well, it's not that hard to add a chainloader entry in your grub file:



edit your /boot/grub/grub.conf and for example, if you have windows on
the first disk and partition 1 then add:



title windows
boot (hd0,0)
chainloader +1

DBelton
27th May 2010, 07:28 AM
I install linux to usb external hard drive. With F12, I had the option to boot fedora or window (which is on the internal hard drive) although selecting the windows option didn't work. But with fedora 13, I don't seem to get the option to boot any other OS!

I believe what you need to do is to edit as root the /boot/grub/grub.conf file and change the timeout= value to something other than 0 and comment out the line that says hiddenmenu.

phaedora
27th May 2010, 11:26 PM
Thanks for the boot tips. Will look into

Next gripe: in general with linux distros I am finding some problem copying info from online site visited using firefox and pasting into openoffice calc (paste icon greyed out)

I believe I am having more success when using chromium browser. Which, sensibly most distros seem to include in their repo. Most distros but not fedora. Maybe there is some high falutin reason why chromium (and I don't mean chrome) is not somehow pure enough for fedora, but I imagine many of us would just like to see chromium (and maybe iron) in the repo

Dan
28th May 2010, 01:05 AM
Uhm ... No. It isn't. And your point?

RahulSundaram
28th May 2010, 01:25 AM
Thanks for the boot tips. Will look into

Next gripe: in general with linux distros I am finding some problem copying info from online site visited using firefox and pasting into openoffice calc (paste icon greyed out)

I believe I am having more success when using chromium browser. Which, sensibly most distros seem to include in their repo. Most distros but not fedora. Maybe there is some high falutin reason why chromium (and I don't mean chrome) is not somehow pure enough for fedora, but I imagine many of us would just like to see chromium (and maybe iron) in the repo

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Chromium

droidhacker
28th May 2010, 08:26 PM
KNetworkManager is *still* broken. I posted here about it during Fedora 13 Beta, and it was impossible find a remedy for this. Now with Fedora 13 final, they didn't do anything about it. KNetworkManager is just as broken, so you can't connect to the internet. "Who cares about Dsl users, anyway. Let's just ignore them, and they'll go away already."
You are using a gnome-centric distro. Switch to gnome and this problem is irrelevant.
"3D support for ATI cards (R600 and R700) via Radeon driver." - A tasty promise from the release announcement, which sadly turns out to be nothing but hot air. No matter what, I couldn't get 3D and Compositing to work with my R700 card and the Radeon driver that ships with Fedora 13 final, so it's just empty promises :mad:
=> The Radeon driver that comes with Mandriva 2010.1 RC actually delivers, compositing and 3D works fine.
Well, two things to say about that.
1) Its the SAME DRIVER,
2) It works for everybody ELSE.

I suggest that you don't do whatever it is that you did to break it and then it should work just fine.
Fedora's Kde integration really could do with some polish, there are still some glitches left. Nothing too major, but it really doesn't make a good impression.
Examples: http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=245659
=> No glitches or anything on Mandriva, the Kde integration is very smooth and polished.

Again, Fedora is a GNOME-CENTRIC distro. The fact that YOU happen to prefer KDE does NOT imply that there is something wrong. Delete KDE, use gnome, and all will be well.

All together, I'm very disappointed with the Fedora 13 final release. This could've been so much better, if only they had put more effort into it :(
Works BEAUTIFULLY.
It seems the old superstition of the number "13" holds true for Fedora.
From my perspective, the typical pattern for Fedora is that even releases suck and odd releases are top notch. After F12, this seemed lost, but F13 makes F12 look like total garbage, so I guess they've just stepped it up a notch.

phaedora
29th May 2010, 11:56 PM
Thanks Rahul for link.
Dan's posts are noted too
Maybe f14 will be a little more user friendly and accommodate popular choice

AshikagaTakauji
31st May 2010, 06:51 PM
Switch to gnome and this problem is irrelevant.
...
Delete KDE, use gnome, and all will be well.

Lookit there, a Gnome troll! :eek:
"Use Gnome, and you can cut it, carve it, saw it, punch a hole in it, strip it, scrape it, tweeze it, file it or screw it."
I'll take the last one - screw it :p

2) It works for everybody ELSE.

So you're suddenly now "everyone else"? How arrogant :rolleyes:

Dan
31st May 2010, 07:26 PM
Gentlemen ...

Please be advised that this conversation is getting very close to it's expiration date. Friendly banter = Okey dokey. Nastiness, insults, bad attitudes = a closed thread.

Good to go?

pottzie
31st May 2010, 08:51 PM
Stuff happens. As I type this, the NASA station is playing on my satellite. And it's just "on there," as I never watch that channel. But someone on the space station is demonstrating that when they connect a new section, they run into things like ducts that are different sizes, and bolts that are 1/2 inch thread mated with nuts that are 7/16. And that's NASA! Fedora can be forgiven.
My upgrade from 12 to 13 did a belly flop. I'm dual booted with an operating system that uses grub2, and grub2 boots all the operating systems I have on board. When preinstall sends the command to reboot into the preinstall kernel, grub2 eats it, and laughs. So I'm going to wait and see what happens.
Stuff happens.

axel668
1st June 2010, 01:32 PM
No issues with F13 LXDE on Intel graphics, in fact it's the fastest distro I've seen so far, regarding 3D support.

Considering your special requirements (KDE desktop, ATI graphics) I'm not surprised that you have a better experience with a rather conservatice KDE centric distribution like Mandriva, in fact I'd recommend you to stay with it or maybe try SUSE or Mepis.

pottzie
5th June 2010, 10:51 PM
For what (precious little) this is worth....I haven't gotten either Mandriva OR PCLinuxOS to work! Downloaded Mandriva 5 times, always got the same thing when I tried to install to HD. Kept getting a regression where the log in screen kept looping back, over an over. "Do you want install?"
"Yes"
OK, sign in as root., so I'd do that. Then"Do you want to install?" Yes." "Then log in as'..to infinity. Complained to the Mandriva forum and was told that I must be an idiot because it works for everyone else. I said screw it, and went with Arch.
Seems that I read somewhere that the "endless loop log-in" was a bug for Fedora for a while. Isn't Mandriva based on Fedora? Could be the problem. I also see where Mandriva is holding off on releasing their newest version, and speculation is it's because Mandriva's being sold. Don't know how that works, exactly.
And yes, the sentence " Kept getting a regresion where the log in screen kept looping back, over an over." is itself a regression.
The "must be an idiot because everyone else gets it" argument was applied to this thread. Maybe that argument isn't as bullet proof as many would like it to be.

Dan
5th June 2010, 11:02 PM
In light of the concept illuminated in the following quote: "As soon as you make it completely idiot-proof, they make a better idiot." ... you are quite likely right.

~cyrus~
5th June 2010, 11:27 PM
Contrary to what the title of this thread says, I am in fact really pleased with f13 KDE.

I migrated to openSUSE from f10 as quite often the f10 updates were rendering my ThinkPad R51 system unstable, for whatever reason, and felt that I just had to move on.

f13 with KDE has been rock solid for me, so far!!

vilmar_nicolau
6th June 2010, 01:16 AM
Fedora 13 64 with KDE has been rock solid for me, so far!!:D

water spirit
8th June 2010, 09:58 AM
Hi, my first post, downloaded Fedora 13 64 bit and installed it last night, I am impressed with the distro itself and the forums. I have been able to find guides for all the things I have done so far.

sonoran
8th June 2010, 01:46 PM
Very smooth fedora 13 install here. For the first time since f8 I didn't have to tinker with Xorg resolution settings to get my Matrox video card working. I assume there are improvements "under the hood" in f13, because otherwise I would have to raise the ugly question: "Has fedora become the prisoner of its release schedule?" (I know, I know, I could read the release notes...)

My only gripes are with two pieces of software I use. gthumb has apparently included some sort of 3D effect in its slideshow function which crashes every time I try to start the program. And the version of pcmanfm included in f13 has been crippled to the point of uselessness in gnome.

In both cases reverting back to the f12 versions solves the problem. I just have to remember to exclude them from yum updates.

All in all, an apparently solid if somewhat dull upgrade of fedora.

Update: I read the Release Notes at Fedora Project and arrived at the conclusion that Fedora 13 is a great argument for rolling release. Or, sometimes, perhaps more is less.

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