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forkbomb
18th March 2010, 02:55 PM
<insert obligatory comment about the bumpy ride that is Fedora>, but this is awfully rage-inducing.

I tried F12 on my desktop once already. Giving it another try. I really am trying. Ubuntu just got too darn boring cause it just worked.

I installed it last night, and everything went pretty well. Actually had to do it twice because I screwed up a manual partitioning configuration (basically LVM over RAID0 with LUKS on /dev/md0). Once I redid the install and remedied my screwup (I think I failed on the first run to put in the right BIOS drive order so I was having GRUB Error 15s), I was able to get it booted. And things seemed fine at first.

Then after I got the last big update done and rebooted into the latest kernel, the random (apparent) hard locks started. I've already experienced perhaps a dozen since last night when I installed at 6:30 or so.
Just a few of them:

apparent X freeze upon just clicking on my username at the GDM screen
logging out (hung displaying the blue bubbly screen)
After putting in my password at GDM and hitting enter
Switching to a TTY and then back to GDM on TTY1 (wanted to change my user's UID and GID)


This all happens regardless of which kernel I boot into. I suppose it must be X or perhaps GDM.

It's frustrating. All in all, F12 has been perfection on my netbook. All hardware is working (well, I don't know about the cam because I couldn't care less about webcams), and best yet was working out of the box. It's been nearly zero configuration, which is why I can't get my head around this. It's just god-awful unstable on my desktop. It's in a dualboot with Win7, and I doubt it's hardware problems (no issues with either Win7 or Ubuntu when I still had that installed).

Sigh. Guess I'll try troubleshooting it this evening. I've been too lazy to pore through logs so far. :rolleyes: I haven't bothered doing any video card configuration yet, so I'll have to step through Leigh's nvidia guide tonight.

ASUS P5N-E
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
EVGA 8600GTS
2GB Corsair XMS2 (800mhz DDR2)

glennzo
18th March 2010, 03:04 PM
I've been too lazy to pore through logs so far. :rolleyes:
:eek: Shame on you :D

forkbomb
18th March 2010, 03:05 PM
:eek: Shame on you :DYes, well, touche.

Thing is, it seems like it's locking up so hard that the logs might not necessarily show me anything.

ghostdawg
18th March 2010, 03:18 PM
Interesting. You seem to have opposite of me and my tower system. I have been using Fedora 12, Mandriva 2010 and Win 7 installed. At one point I was using mdv as main OS, but once it went version 2009.1, it constantly freeze for no reason. No matter what I've tried it keeps freezing, mostly when idle.

On the other hand, F12 has been running smooth, no issues whatsoever. I even had F12 x86-64 for awhile but it was on another hard drive before dying on me. Now only F12, Mdv & Win7. It seems Mdv is the only distro that keeps freezing using the same system.

Using my AAO netbook, Mandriva is running smooth without any issues.

dragonbite
18th March 2010, 03:28 PM
Your system got spoiled with not having to think with Ubuntu, it's resisting having to think for itself with Fedora! :eek:;)

Give it a couple good nights of sleep to soothe the aching muscles and try again later.

BugRocks1
18th March 2010, 03:34 PM
LoL

I had hard crashes when everything start blinking(keyboard) but was on Fedora 11 for some reason Fedora 12 is working fine after I found the answers to video problems...well not that well I just remember that there seems an issue with the clock speed of the CPU reporting time.

CiaW
18th March 2010, 04:57 PM
I remember hard lock-ups on F12 during beta testing, thankfully it got fixed. I'm using nouveau graphics though I do have an nvidia card, (6150) and an acer monitor -- desktop. I think others were having hard lock-ups then too. Have you tried booting to the original non-updated kernel? Or possibly delete your xorg.conf file in some directory that I can't remember right now, reboot and when it rebuilds that file it'll 'just work' (maybe)?

forkbomb
18th March 2010, 06:02 PM
I remember hard lock-ups on F12 during beta testing, thankfully it got fixed. I'm using nouveau graphics though I do have an nvidia card, (6150) and an acer monitor -- desktop. I think others were having hard lock-ups then too. Have you tried booting to the original non-updated kernel? Or possibly delete your xorg.conf file in some directory that I can't remember right now, reboot and when it rebuilds that file it'll 'just work' (maybe)?Hmm, not sure about that. My netbook (AA1) doesn't even have a xorg.conf and works fine. The only reason I put anything into xorg.conf in my new install is to allow X zapping, but Ctrl-Alt-Backspace doesn't actually kill X when I get the lockups. Either ctrl-alt-backspace is still not working or the system really is locked up that hard.

dragonbite
18th March 2010, 06:32 PM
Hmm, not sure about that. My netbook (AA1) doesn't even have a xorg.conf and works fine. The only reason I put anything into xorg.conf in my new install is to allow X zapping, but Ctrl-Alt-Backspace doesn't actually kill X when I get the lockups. Either ctrl-alt-backspace is still not working or the system really is locked up that hard.

I thought Cntl+Alt+Backspace to restart X was removed lately. I don't know who made the decision, but there have been a couple version of Ubuntu where that's been disabled. I thought it was an Ubuntu thing but maybe not..?

forkbomb
18th March 2010, 07:42 PM
I thought Cntl+Alt+Backspace to restart X was removed lately.
Removed as a default, yes. But it can still be enabled. "Fixing" that is what I did with xorg.conf
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11/en-US/sect-Release_Notes-X_Window_System_Graphics.html
I don't know who made the decision, but there have been a couple version of Ubuntu where that's been disabled. I thought it was an Ubuntu thing but maybe not..?
Upstream.

Seems to me that there are far more people peeved to no end about disabling it by default than there were people who were complaining about it.* At the very least it doesn't seem to have been popular among Fedora users.

The Fedora and Ubuntu devs seem oddly content to pass the buck onto the Xorg devs, even though I can't see any technical reason why they (the maintainers of Ubuntu or Fedora) couldn't include, by default, a xorg.conf that contains just that stanza. Then again I'm not an expert on xorg or distro maintenance. :p Wouldn't it be the same in principal as distributing Fedora with, say, a certain wallpaper or GNOME theme? I don't get it. :confused:


*Before anybody says it, no, emacs users do not count as people. :p

PabloTwo
18th March 2010, 08:11 PM
* apparent X freeze upon just clicking on my username at the GDM screen
When I first started using F12 using the mouse to click on my name in the log screen would appear to freeze things up. I found that if I just hit ENTER (since as the only user my name was already highlighted), avoiding using the mouse, it didn't do that. Although there have been a few updates to gdm since then, I'm still "condidtioned" to use the keyboard and not the mouse. Try it.
* logging out (hung displaying the blue bubbly screen)
The only time that happens to me now is after a kernel/kmod-nvidia update, when I choose "Restart" to boot into the new kernel, the screen flashes rapidly for a few seconds, settles down, then just sits there doing nothing. A gentle "CTRL-ATLT_DEL" gets it going again. No more problems with this until the next kernel/kmod-nvidia update. Then, same scenario.
* After putting in my password at GDM and hitting enter
I haven't experienced that one, but if I did, I'd try the "CTRL-ALT-DEL" thing and see if that got things moving again like on the shutdown/restart after a kernel update.
* Switching to a TTY and then back to GDM on TTY1 (wanted to change my user's UID and GID)
I haven't had any occasion to even try that yet on F12.

If it were me having that much trouble with F12, I'd take it back and "demand my money back". :)

dragonbite
18th March 2010, 08:24 PM
If it were me having that much trouble with F12, I'd take it back and "demand my money back". :)

Or could try and reinstall Fedora and try it all again. Maybe if something got borked, or installed bad before a reinstall would write over it with a correct version.

I know it is a Windows-like thinking, but there are times when I find a reboot or reinstall does the trick.

forkbomb
19th March 2010, 01:36 AM
Ooh... just remembered two more:
1) When I change the icon set, the desktop icons stay as the default. Icons displayed in the menu will change.
2) As soon as I log in, the appearance theme is the default. If I go to Preferences -> Appearance, as soon as I click on Appearance, it spontaneously changes back to the theme I've set (i.e. - I don't have to actually change anything there and apply it; all I need to do is open the dialogue and it will correct itself; in fact, it corrects even before the dialog is opened, and it loads plenty slow).

:rolleyes:

I haven't seen this happen on any other distro and it certainly doesn't happen on my Netbook.

---------- Post added at 05:21 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 PM CDT ----------

When I first started using F12 using the mouse to click on my name in the log screen would appear to freeze things up. I found that if I just hit ENTER (since as the only user my name was already highlighted), avoiding using the mouse, it didn't do that. Although there have been a few updates to gdm since then, I'm still "condidtioned" to use the keyboard and not the mouse. Try it.

Just tried it. Same thing.

For now I've just modified grub.conf to boot into runlevel 3. X and GNOME start fine with startx. Since so many of the problems seem to be related to GDM, maybe that's a decent enough compromise for now.

---------- Post added at 06:26 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 PM CDT ----------

Update again:
I think troubleshooting this issue has led me to see a contender for the most eldritch, weird thing to ever happen on a computer. On rebooting and running "startx," what I was greeted with was not GNOME but a corrupted vision of my Windows7 desktop. :eek: Another hard lock. Upon reboot, I tried startx again and got a bunch of fuzzy looking "video static" if you will.

Thinking maybe my vid card was the culprit, I just cracked open the case. Video card appears to have no obvious physical damage, but I pulled the video card and reseated it just in case. I don't think it's a hardware issue as I was having no problems with Ubuntu and Win 7.

Login was fine but logging out left me with just my desktop background (no GNOME panel or icons) and another hard lock that CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE and CTRL-ALT-DEL didn't remedy.

---------- Post added at 07:36 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 06:26 PM CDT ----------

Ahh, nevermind, guys. This isn't worth my time.

dragonbite
19th March 2010, 01:40 PM
IT'S POSSESSED!!!!!! *spin head 360 degrees spewing split-pea soup!*

forkbomb
19th March 2010, 02:51 PM
Ahh, to have the days back where FC6 was supported.

I can't remember Fedora ever being this rough on any machine.

beaker_
19th March 2010, 02:58 PM
Likely a full or new moon over st patty's day. It needs two days to sober up and recover. :D

forkbomb
19th March 2010, 03:00 PM
I already gave it two days! I tried my first F12 install not long after its release (next day, I think). It's still a mess!

DCOH
20th March 2010, 02:43 AM
You don't need xorg.conf to kill the x window once you get to the desktop just go to system >preferences > keyboard > layout > layout options > key sequence to kill the X server open it and put check in box

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