A plea for a cleaner and more usefull forum

[hiberphoptik]

Im so tired of people giving incomplete or useless "assistance" in forums and these forums are no exception.

Please please please do not waste anyones time (including your own), posting answers such as :

"RTFM"

or

"Try searching the forum"

wouldnt it be more constructive to actualy say something like this instead:

"RTFM page 24 half way down 2nd paragraph"

or

"The answer is already in the forum check here http://forum.url.foo.foo.foo"

serisouly, if you take the time to post a response at least make it a usefull response and try to remember that nobody on here is an expert and some are trying linux for the first time just like we all did.

Now... that said... I may not be the most perfect poster in fact somone ripped on me because they didnt like the title of one of my posts but lets all keep in mind that we can always take an extra little step to provide usefull information like links, step by steps, examples, etc..


:cool:

[tashirosgt]

The algorithm I like is:
if ( "I have a problem with <thing>") then reply("man <thing>");
i.e. Go man-yourself

But we could also critize some of the questioners for indeciperable requests. Or the ones that say in the third or fourth post into the thread, "and by the way, I'm using Redhat 8.1, not Fedora Core and my machine has 6 external scsi dirves. There are no IDE drives in it."

The very name "forum" brings up images of a noisy crowded place where all sorts of nonsense is heard. No exception here.

[Ug]

But we could also critize some of the questioners for indeciperable requests. Or the ones that say in the third or fourth post into the thread, "and by the way, I'm using Redhat 8.1, not Fedora Core and my machine has 6 external scsi dirves. There are no IDE drives in it."
That is also very true.

Sadly its one of those problems of a growing forum, I still don't see RTFM as much of a problem round here though. The forum guidlines are aimed at making the forum a better place - that is if everyone followed them. Which sadly most single posters and some major posters flout.

[GreyGeek]

Sadly, your request will be seen by few of the 8,000+ members because this forum IS like a meeting in a city square ... people from around the planet come and go at all hours. Posted messeges get moved down the que and eventually "disappear" into the archives, and a particular message will probably be seen by only a few. Those few will be the regulars, most of whom are very knowledgable and reply with good info to the questions they answer.

So, you task is to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. Sometimes it not easy to do by the subject lines alone. But, in a while, you'll began to recognize those posters who consistantly offer good advice and you'l concentrate on their answers.

[Ug]

I normally have a scan through all the lists, if i see an interesting topic or one where i can help i'll investigate further. There was a time when i could read everything, thats no longer feasible these days.

Most of the stuff I do on the forum these days no longer results in public posting, I do the "admin" stuff behind the scenes which you lot can't see.

[Ug]

Thinking about it now theres actually not a huge amount of posters I recognise these days. I noticed a user with a couple of hundred posts the other day, and realised that I couldn't ever remember having read anything by them.

You tend to have to become notorious sadly these days for me to notice.

[Jman]

Much of this is in our posting guidelines (http://fedoraforum.org/guidelines.php), like Ug said. Ideally people ask and respond with specific, helpful, complete answers.

Unfortunately that's not always possible. Sometimes I'm not sure of the answer. I try to direct people towards where I think the answer is. That way they don't feel neglected with no replies.

And there's the problem of scale: providing these answers to thousands of questions.

If there is any way you can help contribute these complete useful answers or encourage others to, please do it. The community will appreciate it.

[jcstille]

Another good method, rather than posting just search the forum. Search the forum, post the link, and state you got this by searching the forum.

[Ug]

Don't forget google is your friend too.

[gablaxian]

I have a pretty low post count, which is for two reasons. One is because I am relatively new to linux, so I can't really help anyone just yet, and I can only find answers to my problems. And two, the search function on this forum is fantastic. I can never find a reason to create my own thread, as my problem has already been dealt with before.

I think people underestimate the power of the search feature.

[Ug]

I think people underestimate the power of the search feature.You got it in one. But a lot of "Guests" obviously don't underestimate it - as they use the search feature for their problems without needing to sign up to get questions answered.

[jcstille]

Awesome!!! We now have one who gets it, hehe


I have a pretty low post count, which is for two reasons. One is because I am relatively new to linux, so I can't really help anyone just yet, and I can only find answers to my problems. And two, the search function on this forum is fantastic. I can never find a reason to create my own thread, as my problem has already been dealt with before.

I think people underestimate the power of the search feature.

[Ned]

Much of this is in our posting guidelines (http://fedoraforum.org/guidelines.php)

And what excellent guidelines they are too, if only people would read and follow them. For example:


3. Try to make understanding as easy as possible. We're an international forum with users from all over the world and not all of us are fluent in English. Write in as proper English as you are capable of. Honest mistakes are fine, we all make them.

Remember:

* Write in English.
* Add whitespace to your posts. Use enter for paragraphs.
* Capitalize Correctly. All uppercase is considered screaming and very rude. All lower is hard to read.
* Use correct punctuation. Never use more than one question mark or exclamation mark and only at the end of a sentence.
* Never use leet-speak or slang. The purpose of language is beeing understood, not sounding cool.
* Never invent acronyms, use as few acronyms as possible. It's called a problem, not a "pb" and a question, not a "Q".
* Never use colors in all of your posts. Colors are there to highlight something important.
* Read your post over before posting it. Try to catch typos.


To be honest, I don't think it's so much of a problem here as in some other forums I frequent, but I must admit I find it really difficult to read people's posts who don't use paragraphs, incorrect capitalisation and punctuation etc.

There are just too many questions for folks to answer, so consider this; If you want your question answered, at least make it easy to read. I'm not talking about posters who's first language isn't English, that's fine, but those who write without basic (or any) punctuation.

The guidelines provided here are really GOOD. Read them, follow them, and you'll have more chance of getting your question answered.

I'll go back and hide in my hole now and hope Ug doesn't notice me ;)

Ned

[Ug]

I'll go back and hide in my hole now and hope Ug doesn't notice me ;)
Noticed. I will now associate you as the cheeky Englishman who wants bigger PM limits (sorry - its not going to happen) and who actually read the posting guidelines.

Back on topic, the forum guidelines are rather good (if i do say so myself). We went through several drafts of them - the only thing which I think we need to do now is to make them much more visible so that users follow them.

Also don't get offended if I tell you that your not complying to the guidelines. I'm just trying to keep some sort of order. ;)

[crackers]

I was suddenly struck by an image of Marx Bros. chaos in a courtroom and the typical harassed judge screaming "Order! Order!" - Ug pops up in the Groucho role and proclaims "Fish and chips, for me!"

I think I need to get more sleep... ;)

[superbnerd]

Back on topic, the forum guidelines are rather good (if i do say so myself). We went through several drafts of them - the only thing which I think we need to do now is to make them much more visible so that users follow them. Didn't I bring this up (http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21590) a month ago? You should make it a sticky like the firefox forum (http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=fdaf8ab6931cebaa2fe8d633f9f300ec).

[earobinson111]

Well i come to this site for cuz i think its the best, i love this site, and i think at the end of the day it is run very well (some things i dont like but thats ok) the people here are so helpful. I use serch and google, but i am still new to linux, i wirte more lots of sh programs now (my whole address book is an sh program so much better than anything else) i love the | command pipes are the best but this forum is what kepet me using linux. and i find linux so much beter than windows now. i think this place is great the admins and mods do a great job we are nealy at 100,000 posts and i couldent be happier.

keep up the good work guys.

i think i will always be coming here for ever this is a great place and ever one of my friends that i tell to use linux i tell them two things.
1. use fedora core, it is the best os out there i find and i have used a lot now.
2. go to fedoraforum they are great and can help you with any problems you have.

im slowly learning and hope one day i will be answering questions instead of asking them (then my rep would go up lol) but for now ill help with the programing and ask for the rest

oh and a note to ug, you i see the most when i log on, you may think you do a lot of admin stuff (and im sure u do) but you are also one of the most helpfull and best posters out there

[Ug]

Didn't I bring this up (http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21590) a month ago? You should make it a sticky like the firefox forum (http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=fdaf8ab6931cebaa2fe8d633f9f300ec).
A sticky isn't really adequate, i'm thinking more of inserting it into the template for the site. I put an Announcement in the "How-to" forum, which is rarely looked at. People blatantly ignore these things, plus it would clutter up the forums to a certain extent.

[superbnerd]

Into the template, aye? Where exactly would it go? Maybe we should have a poll to see what people think would be the most affective location.