Todays Update and Panel Icons

[dd_wizard]

After today's (20091017, 16:15PST) update, all of my panel icons are about twice as wide as they used to be. I'm running Gnome/Openbox in case that matters. What's up with that?

EDIT: Ok, the icons are the same size, but they must have a large border or something. They can't be squished together as much as before the update.

[SlowJet]

Yeah, they tweaked the panel twice.

One was to reduce the default # of workspaces from 4 to 2.
Exactly the type of changes they are NOT supposed to do.
Although simple and easy, there are coded scripts controlling workspaces.
I use them for VM's, too.
That is why the changes need to be announced in pre and alpha and NOT added after the fact.
It breaks things.

I wonder if they will ever NOT break the release in this way before I die?
I'm not holding my breath, but I'm an biting my tongue and screaming bloody murder. :)

Dumb, just plan dumb.

SJ

[scottro]

Isn't it difficult to scream while biting your tongue?

(I'm afraid to experiment myself, as I might hurt my tongue.)

[SlowJet]

I takes pactice and I get a lot using Fedora raehide. :)

Here another round,
cron getting hosed from a compile to be used in a review.
How dumb is that?
I assume the review will fail? Should never have been in koji( without a different tag).

SJ

[Demz]

makes you wonder what the initial beta will be like if they break that stuff

[SlowJet]

Well, beta is frozen and is being polished to install and boot.
So if anaconda works, so goes the the first boot.

And I must say F12 fully updated is doing very well.
But the number of changes made that I would think is "to late for release" is very high.
So some programmers are spreading their luck very thin. :)
(Of course, the norm is, it runs out just before release.)

SJ

[Demz]

IMO will be a bad release time 1 day before Windows7 is officially released, i somehow think thats gonna dampen Fedora12's beta news

[SlowJet]

lol, well we are out numbered 1,000 to 1. Or maybe 2,000 to 1,
Today we had heavy rain storms (rather existing after a record breaking 27 day 90+ summer).
So I was watching the regional weather channel and they said to be sure to tune in a 8:00 am on Monday for a preview of M$'s W7. I'm like, "WTF does that have to do with the weather? Then I thoht, oh!. Maybe they all get new hardware and big HD screens and they are exited about that, for change, rather than the weather.

It's every where. lol

SJ

[Demz]

but talking bout the icons.. wasnt Gnome gonna make them bigger anyway? im sure i read that they were gonna be like 256x256 ..something like that

[SlowJet]

I think that is gnome 3 shell, a bit of KDE Ketchup.
Monomaniacs are spies form M$. :)
Big icons are the prelude to cell-phone apps.
A woman, rejected by some tv show for idea people, created a web site for women's inventions, ideas, products.
One woman has a cell-phone app to teach the alphabet to little kids.
I wonder what holograms will be embedded in with it from the iippss.
(You are lovin' it. Coke makes the world go round, got milk, Tobasco sauce, it'snot just hot, it's expense, oops, I mean goooood, you need a PRD drug, high txes and big government are a goo thing. Buy a gun, they are really pretty and shiny..)

SJ

[Demz]

so i see

Future 2.x releases

Artwork

# Colorscheme support on themes and appearance capplet
# Dark widget theme
# Flat widget theme
# Compact widget theme for small screens
# Provide color variations on some of the existing themes
# Initial set of 256x256 icons
# Nicer GNOME Panel icons
# Update outdated desktop emblems

http://live.gnome.org/RoadMap

[SlowJet]

Well, version 2.18.0.7 final broke something. (On the Pent III apollo-133 nouveau , it still works on the Pent IV 865 intel.)
The networkmanager notification icon. And Weather icon.
version 2.18.0.6 --oldpackage and it works for networkmanager but not weather..

SJ

[GoinEasy9]

Also the little icon in the lower left on the gnome screen disappeared (I never used it, but, it was used to hide all windows and show the desktop).
Right clicking on the workspace icon, and choosing preferences, I changed the workspaces back to 4, default shouldn't be 2, geez.
I sort of like the icons spread out, I thought they looked larger also, but, maybe not.
I miss the changing wallpaper feature that the alpha release had. I want to see the Constantine and Brickwork wallpapers changing with what is now the Tile work in the mist wallpaper. (Or is it the fedora executive washroom after a hot shower wallpaper?)
OK, enough about the eye candy. All in all I think F12 is working pretty good. I haven't seen a bug in a couple of weeks now (Actually haven't come across a bug since system-config-firewall was fixed). Then again, I only play with it a couple hours a day. Maybe this week I'll try it as a full blown production box and see how it holds up. My only concern at this time is how easy it will be to update from F11 to F12. Been a fedora user only since June, the upgrade to F12 will be a major step for me.

Sorry, one more thing, how about some kmod or akmod nvidia. This close to release and no kmod's in repo? I mean nouveau seems to be working ok, but it would be nice to see the the whole package.
OK, enuf from me, off to bed.

[SlowJet]

Yes, I didn't see that one.
It is gone on the Pent III.

SJ

[dd_wizard]

You can add Show Deskbacktop back to the panel, and it stays. I've no idea why it disappeared after the patch, but it's easy to restore.

dd_wizard

[GoinEasy9]

@dd-wizard
I'll try that,... lol...I actually never used the icon, but for some reason it adds a weird balance to the bottom of the screen.

[AdamW]

looks like these changes landed after the beta un-freeze:

* Fri Oct 16 2009 Matthias Clasen <mclasen@redhat.com> 2.28.0-6
- Put status icons in a predictable order

* Wed Oct 14 2009 Matthias Clasen <mclasen@redhat.com> 2.28.0-5
- Tweaks to the default panel configuration

if they're causing bad side-effects, get to bug reportin'...:)

[AdamW]

update, just checked in with matthias clasen, these changes are intentional (the change in default number of workspaces, removal of 'show desktop' button, and the padding between icons in the notification area).

matthias is going to write an email to fedora-desktop-list explaining these changes soon, I'll link to it in this thread when I see it.

the suggestion that the changes have 'broken' some icons seems a bit vague - could you elaborate on that so we can tell whether it's a bug?

[SlowJet]

This seems to be a major change to gnome as it has been the same since FC3.
My concerns are;

1. Is he distingisuting between a fix for current and new devl in rahide that is frozen from changes?

2. Why and for what reasons were the desktop show and a reduction of workspaces done?
Was there any discussion or even a warning somewhare?
destop list is not where rawhide users would be looking for changes in post beta cycle.

3. As far as the breakage goes.
The 2.6.18.-6 removed the desktop show, the weather icons, the network notification icon, and crashed it, causing abrt to engage, which if incompletely installed covered the screen with up to 3 frozen screens.

After 2.6.18-7 gnome-panels, two other packages got into the mix.
Gnome-media (2 or 3 compiles.) and gnome-theme (2 or 3 compiles.)
At that point it becomes a bit difficult to guess the right combination to make it work, if it ever did.

Now gnome-panels is up to 2.6-18.9
And for all of these there is little explanation in the logs to go on.

The current fix, for /me was to --oldpackage 2.6.18-5 and try the fisrt gnome-theme and media.
But manually adding the desktop show, and change workspaces back to 4 fixed their disappearance.

Now it appears to also be xdriver dependent.
intel has always had the temp and weather icons. But nouveau had never had them.

The main thing here is, as soon as the beta is released and rawhide get pushed, this will be in everyone's face.
For no real reason known to anyone but the programmer.

SJ

[AdamW]

Here;s Matthias' email:

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2009-October/msg00066.html

it doesn't mention the default number of desktops change, but I did confirm with Matthias that was intentional on IRC.

The padding and ordering changes are pending upstream changes, AIUI:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343436
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=583273
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=583115

There is, AFAICT, no rationale provided in the announce email or the RPM changelog anywhere. However, follow-up discussion on the email provides rationale for the show-desktop button change:

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2009-October/msg00070.html

Other discussion from desktop-list:

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2009-October/msg00061.html (someone asked about the padding changes)

I'll subscribe to the list and send a mail to pass along your concerns. The problem with your nouveau system does sound like some kind of bug, possibly in the driver triggered by the changes; I run nouveau here, so when I get these packages I'll see if I can reproduce.

[SlowJet]

AdamW,

I read through that and I can only say that I liked Paul Fields suggestion.

I just did the lastest updates for gnome-panel, media, theme and all my settings were maintained on reboot excpt
Network-notification icon.
I get a pop up windows saying it is missing a resource and can not continue.
Please don't release this to rawhide until it is fixed or it will flod this site with network questions.
And the nouveau is still missing the temp and weather.

SJ

[scottro]

I looked through some of it too, and see, (as usual) Adam and Rahul presenting our (the users) point of view.

Thanks guys. We users do appreciate it.

@SJ, is that the same thing Glenn had today? Seems to be.

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=232339

[SlowJet]

I second that, and I think Paul's suggestion would help us ers even more.

Yes, that is the message, but it is only the notification.
The network is actually working
unless
It is a newbie and the net did not start (and now, no icon)
he will have no idea what we are talking about to fix the network.
Especially if services can't start.
Hence, many network related posts.

SJ

[AdamW]

the NM problem seems to be https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=529766 . it's already being fixed.

[SlowJet]

yes, 6 versions so far.
But it is NOT fixed.

SJ

[Darr247]

I looked through some of it too, and see, (as usual) Adam and Rahul presenting our (the users) point of view.

Thanks guys. We users do appreciate it.

@SJ, is that the same thing Glenn had today? Seems to be.

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=232339


They can espouse the 'official' story and spin (no pun intended) it any direction they like... still, it's not hard even for a rookie to figure out the *real reason* (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/GNOME) it was removed. :p

edit: hmmmm - maybe that link's NSFW.

[AdamW]

slowjet: there haven't been six versions of NetworkManager, there've been six revisions of gnome-panel. The particular bug discussed above is in fact a bug in NM, as explained in the bug report. The fix has gone in upstream, not in the Fedora package yet.

darr247: the recent gnome-panel changes actually _add configuration options that did not exist before_. If you believe certain people, this more or less means Satan's getting his ice skates and snowplough out of storage at present =)

[SlowJet]

They can espouse the 'official' story and spin (no pun intended) it any direction they like... still, it's not hard even for a rookie to figure out the *real reason* (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/GNOME) it was removed. :p

edit: hmmmm - maybe that link's NSFW.

"To make it more unlikely that anyone will use it, preferences should be encrypted and encoded in morse code."

lol, bad.
But really, it's like the author read my mind. :)

OK, I rebooted and now the network notification icon is a warning triangle that says the NeteorkManager crashed.
Yet , here I am typing this post on the network.

I can see the posts coming like a meteor shower in October.

SJ

[Demz]

dont you just love using a " bleeding edge " distro SJ

all i can say is..

least the network stuff works in windows an i actually get Sound

[SlowJet]

slowjet: there haven't been six versions of NetworkManager, there've been six revisions of gnome-panel. The particular bug discussed above is in fact a bug in NM, as explained in the bug report. The fix has gone in upstream, not in the Fedora package yet.

darr247: the recent gnome-panel changes actually _add configuration options that did not exist before_. If you believe certain people, this more or less means Satan's getting his ice skates and snowplough out of storage at present =)

Oh, ok, I had not gotten that far until I rebooted. Never saw that problem until now..


SJ

[SlowJet]

dont you just love using a " bleeding edge " distro SJ

all i can say is..

least the network stuff works in windows an i actually get Sound

Yeah, I'm starting the miss my 5.1 rock and roll at moments like this. :)

SJ