Fedora DVD.

[chrispche]

Ex, Ubuntu user installs Fedora 11.

I installed from the Gnome Live CD. I must say there is hardly any software that comes pre installed. No OpenOffice or anything. Is this the norm? I mean I installed everything I wanted fine. I have the system how I want it. I'm not complaining. I'm curious if I had installed from the DVD iso would I have had more applications installed as default?

Cheers.

[l0vvrider]

Yes, DVD offers much more software divided into groups and you can choose individual packages in every single group. Can''t remember exactly right now, but I think that by default GNOME and Productivity/Office groups are installed.

Personally, I like the smallest install possible when it comes to Fedora. Simply, there are so many updates, so in the end it doesn't matter if you skip something during install process.

[JohnnyLinux]

Ex, Ubuntu user installs Fedora 11.

I installed from the Gnome Live CD. I must say there is hardly any software that comes pre installed. No OpenOffice or anything. Is this the norm? I mean I installed everything I wanted fine. I have the system how I want it. I'm not complaining. I'm curious if I had installed from the DVD iso would I have had more applications installed as default?

Cheers.

Yes DVD comes with pretty much anything you would want from a mainstream apps. The whole OpenOffice suite is included.
KDE and GNOME are also included should you want both as well ;)
I stopped using live CD's and not looking back.

[stoat]

...I mean I installed everything I wanted fine. I have the system how I want it. I'm not complaining. I'm curious if I had installed from the DVD iso would I have had more applications installed as default?

Yes, DVD offers much more software divided into groups and you can choose individual packages in every single group.

Yes DVD comes with pretty much anything you would want from a mainstream apps.Hello everybody,

And just to add a counter-argument... When you do the default installation from the DVD at this stage of a Fedora version, you have downloaded and will install many many obsolete files, and you will be greeted by a giant system update immediately after installation. Whereas any method that minimizes the downloading and installation of obsolete files and then uses yum to install current packages will save some time. Furthermore, the default installation of the DVD may very likely install many packages that you will never need or use. A minimal installation that is then built up only with desired packages is sleeker and less bloated. For the last few versions, I have been installing an extremely minimal system with the first CD of the CD set (which I keep for linux rescue). Then I install the specific groups and packages that I need. I have come to like it better. But that's just me and my opinion.

[scottro]

And mine. :)
In many ways, for the same reason as stoat, it means the first update is very small, and you have more control over what you're installing. The downside is that you might have to do more configuration afterwards.

[l0vvrider]

@stoat

I couldn't agree more.;) That is why I wrote this in the first place:

Personally, I like the smallest install possible when it comes to Fedora.

However, I used net install CD for F10 and F11 and in the end again had to remove obsolete stuff manually. When it comes to yum (maybe the situation is same with APT, zypper and other package managers), I figured it out that it almost always pulls unnecessary packages as dependencies. If you simple follow the output, it is quite easy to conclude which package is pulled down by accident.

Just for example, on my F11 tried installing just GDM package. One of dependencies is PolicyKit, but somehow besides GNOME's PolicyKit, it pulled down KDE's PolicyKit also. That means many KDE libs and other non wanted stuff. When I first installed GNOME's PolicyKit manually (this time KDE's PK wasn't listed as dependency) and then GDM, everything went fine, without KDE bloatware this time.

Anyway, that 1st CD seems like a good idea, I'll give it try when F12 comes out.

[scottro]

There are all sorts of legacy dependencies and also dependencies that they put in for some reason or another. For example, at one point, (using the DVD or netinstall, I forget which) I unchecked both Gnome and KDE but left X Window system checked. This pulled in policy kit, which at the time, at least, required either Gnome or KDE and wound up pulling in all the KDE things.

It works the other way too--when new to Fedora, I did something like yum -y remove wireless-tools and walked away. When I came back, KDE was gone, as it pulled most of the KDE programs with it.

While I certainly prefer yum to tracking down all dependencies myself, some of the unneeded things are pure annoyance, for example PackageKit. I don't use it, don't need it--nothing wrong with its concept, (I know there were issues with it a few releases back, but I think they've been ironed out--I don't know from experience, not using it, but hear fewer complaints), but it's more effort to keep it out than it is to let it install.

Even installing X Window System brings in a bunch of things I don't need, and, last I looked, left out xterm and xinit, (the thing that makes startx work). (I think xinit's been readded, but am really not sure.)

Next install, I want to try a more minimal X install as well, just installing server and my particular drivers. As it is, it installs a package, the name escapes me at the moment, that pulls in 30-40 video drivers that I don't need.)

Sometimes, it turns out that package A pulls in package C, because package B, obviously necessary to package A, has a dependency on C. But, C, needs E, which needs D, etc.

And, as I0vrider points out, often, it turns out that they're bluffing. That is, it will say, can't install A because D is broken, so you use download only to get D, (although sometimes, it won't do that either, so you have to manually find the rpm somewhere) install it with rpm --nodeps and Lo! and Behold! it works anyway.