Fedora 9 in Gnome or KDE?

[vinoman]

I have recently tried out Fedora 9 in Gnome and KDE4 via live cd. Gnome I'm comfortable with from Ubuntu, but I was curious about KDE4. What do others think of these versions and how they function?

KDE4 seems like its lacking a lot of function that you have in KDE3. KDE4 looks nice but maybe we have to wait until 4.1 comes out in July.

Any thoughts on this?

[juanfgs]

I'm not a KDE guy, but everyone would recommend to wait until 4.1 (now in beta) is available. It would be unfair to judge it by the current status of 4.0 (which is a development release).

[OralDeckard]

I am a KDE guy. Until KDE4. I have been very frustrated with KDE4, and have been using Gnome in F9.

But last night I updated and tried KDE again, and a new feature was added. At the top of the K-Menu there is a new option, "Switch to Classic Menu Style"

I did it, and most of my gripes went away. For instance, when I click on Home I no longer am defaulted to Dolphin. Konqueror is back, and that is a good thing.

But I always liked to do my root work with Konqueror as "File Browser-Super User Mode." Well that just crashes. That leaves me using Dolphin.

A crashing program is not a worry for me. The devs will fix it. My worry was that I would never get Konqueror back. In Gnome I have Nautilus with these awful little file browser windows littering the place, one for each folder I visit. But in Gnome I had Konqueror. Konqueror wasn't stable like in KDE 3.5, but they are working on it.

I just hope the option to switch to the "Classic" menu style stays, and is not just a short term sop to buy time to get the bugs out of the other menu style. It wasn't the bugs in the other menu style that I have a problem with. If everything worked perfectly I would still be defaulted to Dolphin, which makes no provision to move up one level, just back.

One other thing I don't like about KDE 4 is the inability to create a second panel. I always keep my aps on the main panel my taskbar on a separate panel. But with KDE 4 I can't get many apps on the panel because the taskbar is competing for space. And the icons for running aps look just about like the aps I want to run, and create confusion. Further, when I try to right click on a menu item to copy it to the Main Panel, sometimes that works, and sometimes it just runs the program. Maybe that is a bug and will be fixed. I hope so.

When F8 came out I installed it on a virtual machine until such time that I had faith in it, leaving F7 to do the work. That took nearly a week. Now, I have F8 working fine where it is needed. I have no burning need to get F9 installed on a real hard drive, so as far as I am concerned the devs can take their time. I love what they produce. I just get a little nervous that they may think something auful, like not being able to move up one level with a file browser, is what should be debugged and perfected.

[OralDeckard]

Ah, I get to nit pick Jaunfgs's grammer ;)
(and hope he doesn't correct my version of nit pick)

To have a perfect flow off the tongue of a native hoosier (Indiana resident) I would change "recommend to wait" to "recommend that you wait."

And for those who boo me for going after such a trifling thing, hey, the man wants feedback.

[jonathonp]

"In Gnome I have Nautilus with these awful little file browser windows littering the place, one for each folder I visit."

in the file browser go to edit>preferences> behaviour and tick 'always open in browser windows' Problem solved.

[OralDeckard]

Thank you Johnnylinux. I'll try that.
I'm glad that the fix is so easy. But don't you wonder why the default is like that? I mean, is that the way most people use it? My thought is that the devs thought that was the best way to go, and considered that a perfect soluution, needing to bug fix. Then with KDE4 I see things that make no sense to me, like a file browser that can only move back, not up, or a clock that cannot be configured, or no way to create a second panel, or a Configure Desktop that no longer allow configuring the resolution, and I worry that that is considered to be perfection. In my F9 VM I cannot adjust the resolution. I have it set with VMware controls, and must visit Settings/System Settings/Display every time I boot.

If these are bugs that is fine. They will get it fixed. But what if they think this is nirvana ? :|

[muep]

If everything worked perfectly I would still be defaulted to Dolphin, which makes no provision to move up one level, just back.


Did you know that you can add the "Up" button to the toolbar? Besides, Dolphin has this nice thing in place of the location bar that lets you go to the parent directories by clicking. For my use, there is thus no need for an Up button, but you certainly can add one to the toolbar if you need one.

[OralDeckard]

No, I did not know that. I will try it tomorrow. Thank you very much.

[OralDeckard]

So now perhaps you can tell me how to save the settings. I like the detail view, not icons. In Konqueror I set it to split screen, with each side defaulted to a starting locaiton, and bookmarks and tabs and windows size, then I save the settings and it opens up that way next time. How much of that can I get Dolphin to do ?

[Hlingler]

So now perhaps you can tell me how to save the settings. I like the detail view, not icons. In Konqueror I set it to split screen, with each side defaulted to a starting locaiton, and bookmarks and tabs and windows size, then I save the settings and it opens up that way next time. How much of that can I get Dolphin to do ?F9, KDE4? Not gonna happen. I like details, too. I"ve tried every trick I can think of to get D3lphin/Dolphin to save my settings. Every time I open it anew, it's back to default. ARGH! Fortunately, this is no longer an issue, since I can no longer get KDE to start a desktop session without crashing at the splash screen....

V

[Thetargos]

Thank you Johnnylinux. I'll try that.
I'm glad that the fix is so easy. But don't you wonder why the default is like that? I mean, is that the way most people use it?
I also hate "spatial" mode (as it is called), which is IMO very annoying. There are ways to make it behave like browser mode, but I don't see the case, a LOT of people (hard-core GNOME users, it would seem) prefer spatial, as that's the default mode "upstream" (i.e. straight from the project's settings). Fedora uses as much as possible what upstream has as default, hence we have spatial mode for Nautilus (by the way, if you care to try, to force in spatial mode to only have one window at any time, use shift+double-click to open a folder, which will indeed open a new window, but close the "parent" window... go figure :rolleyes: ).

At any rate, I'm a GNOME guy, KDE feels like it has a glassé coat all over it. I have tried to use it many times in the past (from KDE 1 all the way up to KDE 3 and now 4... I can't bring myself to use it)... for some reason, it makes me feel like I'm holding a Krispy Kreme classic doughnut... delicious, but leaves your fingers sticky, not to mention you can get surfeited (clogged) by it, I know I do. But to each their own ;)

What is excessive for one person is insufficient for others, and vice versa.

[OralDeckard]

Well, thanks to meup I now have a Dolphin I like :)

It had the good stuff all along. It was just defaulted to a 98 pound weakling. Kind of like Nautilus I guess. Well, I'm going after Nautillus next. But right now I thought I'd let you know that you can go into the View dropdown and adjust the view to add all the power that was left out by default, including UP, HOme, Relaod, Stop, Zoom In, Zoom Out and Terminial. Yeah, Terminal. It puts a Terminal window at the bottom so you don't have to open a terminal as a separate process in a window that may cover, or be covered. And Permissions.

And ...

Without saving the settings, it opens back up in the state I left it :)

I noticed when I first opened it that it was showing details instead of icons. I suspect at least that las was part of the most recent update. I could like this better than Konqueror. So far no bookmarks or tabs, but I could give those up.

Thank you meup !

[ingvildr]

I also hate "spatial" mode (as it is called), which is IMO very annoying. There are ways to make it behave like browser mode, but I don't see the case, a LOT of people (hard-core GNOME users, it would seem) prefer spatial, as that's the default mode "upstream" (i.e. straight from the project's settings). Fedora uses as much as possible what upstream has as default, hence we have spatial mode for Nautilus (by the way, if you care to try, to force in spatial mode to only have one window at any time, use shift+double-click to open a folder, which will indeed open a new window, but close the "parent" window... go figure :rolleyes: ).

I might as well show my vote for spatial :). I think it works really well for drag and drop and if i am going into a really deep directory tree i just middle click my way through which closes the parent window. Also the saving of the position and size of folders is really nice when you use a virtual desktop for file browsing.

Only thing I want is to able to hold a DnD selection over a folder and have it open, or have nautilus open archives as actual folders instead of using File Roller. But that would be for both modes not spatial specific.

[OralDeckard]

There, you see ?
We have a confessor!
I was afraid it was because some actually like it that way :O

:) Just kidding.

For easy drag and drop I use split screen. Actually I set my defaults to run that way all the time.
In Konqueror I can get a copy of my browser window by clicking on the blue K in the upper right.
And I don't have to middle click to close all the windows in the path to my destination. But that my matter of taste I guess.

So I just thought I'd mention that I have a correction to make.
In onder to configure Dolphin, Don't go to View, go to Settings, then Configure Dolphin :|

Now I'm off to see what happens with Nautilus. I found a lot of things I liked about Gnome while avoiding the Dolphin. If I could get a browser I liked I suspect I would use it more.

[JN4OldSchool]

There, you see ?
We have a confessor!
I was afraid it was because some actually like it that way :O

:) Just kidding.

For easy drag and drop I use split screen. Actually I set my defaults to run that way all the time.
In Konqueror I can get a copy of my browser window by clicking on the blue K in the upper right.
And I don't have to middle click to close all the windows in the path to my destination. But that my matter of taste I guess.

So I just thought I'd mention that I have a correction to make.
In onder to configure Dolphin, Don't go to View, go to Settings, then Configure Dolphin :|

Now I'm off to see what happens with Nautilus. I found a lot of things I liked about Gnome while avoiding the Dolphin. If I could get a browser I liked I suspect I would use it more.

Just for the heck of it, why not do a "yum install thunar?" You may not like it, but for me this is the best file browser going. It is more basic, just a file browser, but it does everything I want.

[OralDeckard]

Well, just one little checkbox, and Nautilus is transformed into a butterfly :)
It works great now. And Dolphin comes up just the way I left in in KDE.
Now Gnome is a nice place to work.
Now off to try Thunar.

[ingvildr]

Only thing I want is to able to hold a DnD selection over a folder and have it open, or have nautilus open archives as actual folders instead of using File Roller. But that would be for both modes not spatial specific.

Weird to quote my own post, but I went on a nautilus experiment and I turned on list view and it allows you to DnD and drop down into multiple sub folders, looks like a found a new default setting.

[OralDeckard]

THAT is why I like Detailed View. You get a much better view of what's going on, and you get better control of the action.

So I tried Thunar. JN4OldSchool is right. It is an excellet file browser. It didn't have all the bells and whistles of of Konqueror or Dolphin, but it did what a file browser is supposed to do very well. The only thing I could not find was how to get it to display the owner and group.

Also I bot the bright idea to install dolphin for F8. Using Yumex it showed me all the dependencies it was going to install with it, which turned out to be all of KDE4. I said not only no, but atch no. I ain't riskin what might happen to my purrin like a kitten F8 :p

[OralDeckard]

So now that Dolphin, Nautilis and Thunar are much better, who wants to be the first to improve the desktop in other ways, like how to configure the clock to do more than just have big numerals, or get a second panel dedicated to the taskbar ?

[OralDeckard]

All right, I get the first one. To get a second panel dedicated to the taskbar, just be in Gnome :b
I MEANT in KDE, but I didn't say in KDE, so I figured if I didn't move fast I'd be had :O

OK I got the next great improvement. To adjust screen resolution of the F9 VM, just grab it by t he corner and stretch it to as much as you want of the host screen, just like a Windows VM. That is WAY cool. No more trying to select the closest fit from a too small selection.

OK, in KDE this time since it obviously works in Gnome, how to swittch user, and actually succeed.