F9 Themes

[drunkahol]

Hey folks,

Where would be the right place (apart from here of course, but that's just letting off steam) to give comment on the direction the latest themes are going in.

What I particularly have an issue with is the sulphur "crystal" thingy that looks like making it's way through as part of the default F9 theme.

I can't quite believe it! Seriously!

The Fedora 7 balloons were a big enough mistake - sure some people liked them, but a default wallpaper should be largely free of objects and items.

I just want to say something before the emperor starts walking down the street with no clothes on!

F8 has a nice flowing wallpaper. F6 DNA was also good. The F5 bubbles were a touch on the busy side. Beyond there my memory is fading.

Cheers

Duncan

[Wayne]

Probably here:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork

Wayne

[Demz]

Hey folks,

Where would be the right place (apart from here of course, but that's just letting off steam) to give comment on the direction the latest themes are going in.

What I particularly have an issue with is the sulphur "crystal" thingy that looks like making it's way through as part of the default F9 theme.

I can't quite believe it! Seriously!

The Fedora 7 balloons were a big enough mistake - sure some people liked them, but a default wallpaper should be largely free of objects and items.

I just want to say something before the emperor starts walking down the street with no clothes on!

F8 has a nice flowing wallpaper. F6 DNA was also good. The F5 bubbles were a touch on the busy side. Beyond there my memory is fading.

Cheers

Duncan
i cant see wht the problem is over a default wallpaper though, it can easily be changed to suite youself

[drunkahol]

That's an easy argument to make about a default, but it doesn't really hold up. If I used a disgusting or offensive image as a default - I could still change it right? But it wouldn't make it the right thing to have as a default.

The default should be something that doesn't catch your eye or draw attention away from the foreground. Sure . . . change to something else if you want, but users shouldn't have to change to something less exciting just because the default has too much going on.

Look at cars. The sales of cars are heavily tied to what is most acceptable to the user. If you want some more excitement in your car - go ahead and change the gearstick, put a pink steering wheel cover on, stick a spoiler and a long bendy aerial on the car. But the default is a very safe standard that showrooms will very rarely deviate from. Even the choice of colour is strictly controlled to ensure that their new models don't look too garish on the roads.

Cheers

Duncan

[Demz]

point made but as the arguement comes up at every release, this will not be to everyones likes , its just as easy to change it, like i said ..when your in Windows ( Microsoft ) do you leave the wallpaper on default?.. No straight away it gets changed

[bob]

Any links to the possible wallpaper?

[Demz]

bob i think you'll find them on FWN #122 if not #121

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F9Themes/Waves i think there the ones there using

i think there going with the top wallpaper.. though im not 100% on that

[bob]

Ah....yeah.....umm.....(thinking of something positive here....nope)....

[Wayne]

An old adage springs to mind "If you haven't anything nice to say then keep your trap shut!" :)

I wish I could think of something nice to say :eek:

Edit: Looks a bit like Kryptonite! :p

Wayne

[leadgolem]

...I'm sorry I can't keep my mouth shut.

The colors are fine, the waves are fine, the sulfur it's self is actually done fairly well. What I would like to know is why the top half of the sulfur is covered in blue fire? That doesn't make any sense to me.

EDIT: Incidentally, I actually like the hot air balloons...

[Demz]

An old adage springs to mind "If you haven't anything nice to say then keep your trap shut!" :)

I wish I could think of something nice to say :eek:

Edit: Looks a bit like Kryptonite! :p

Wayne
maybe they want the superman affect :D

[drunkahol]

I'm all for having some nicely designed wallpaper etc. Just don't make it part of the DEFAULT theme.

I actually didn't mind the balloon wallpaper either - it just made NO sense to have it as the DEFAULT.

As for the burning sulphur . . . I honestly can't think of what to say about it. It beggars belief that people would believe that this is the image that should be associated with the Fedora distro!

Remember that peoples opinions are heavily based on what they see first. Example: people still refer to Ubuntu as the "brown" distro despite that being the last thing that should influence a distro choice.

Cheers

Duncan

[mohbana]

fedora 8's wallpaper is beautiful, i like the way the colour changes throughout the day.

[Demz]

I'm all for having some nicely designed wallpaper etc. Just don't make it part of the DEFAULT theme.

I actually didn't mind the balloon wallpaper either - it just made NO sense to have it as the DEFAULT.

As for the burning sulphur . . . I honestly can't think of what to say about it. It beggars belief that people would believe that this is the image that should be associated with the Fedora distro!

Remember that peoples opinions are heavily based on what they see first. Example: people still refer to Ubuntu as the "brown" distro despite that being the last thing that should influence a distro choice.

Cheers

Duncan
dosnt matter what wallapeper they use as default not everyone will like it,, so how do you please everyone with 1 default wallpaper, i mean look at Ubungu :D there's is ugly to say the least an you complain about Fedora's, least it has some kinda style an more colour in it than just blue

[Aaron_H]

If the sulphur wallpaper is default in F9, I'll be changing it to the default F8 wallpaper (infinity) as soon as I install...

I believe that default wallpapers should be quite fresh and clean. Like the ones that're installed on OS X.. (Although if the space one is default in 10.5 I don't like that much either). :P

[stefan1975]

Hi,

compared to F7 and F8 I believe all themes in "round 3" are exceptionally crappy. I know this is a personal observation but none of the new themes look professional and slick to me. Admitted it can be changed easily but a first impression is very important.

I always believed that Fedora stood apart from for example Ubuntu for its polish among other things. The liberation fonts, the eye to detail the themeing was all excellent but what I have seen for F9 does not really appeal to me. Heck I even like the wallpaper with the Heron for Ubuntu 8.04 better.

The only wallpaper that does not suck bollocks imho is the round1 waves one. Hope they will make it better before final.

stefan

[Dan]

Awright. <..:mad:..>

I've set back and let this one go on without comment from me till now, and I should probably err to the side of caution and delete this before I post it. I guess we'll see if that happens or not. <..:cool:..>

If it doesn't ... there are some things you folks might want to keep in mind.

1) The art team is an unpaid volunteer community resource. They give us the best of what they've got out of the goodness of their pea-pickin' lil' ol' hearts!

2) They build on what they've been given. Including a release codename, community input, collaboration and feedback. (How many of us took a minute of our time, wandered over to the art list and suggested alternatives when they called for feedback?)

3) If creating art, from concept to final execution, was all that easy, everybody and his dog would be creating masterpieces.

4) None of which is to say we don't have some squawking room, here. Opinions are fine. I'm not a raging fan of either the codename, or the limitations it placed on some very talented people on the art team. But it is important, I think, to acknowledge and respect the efforts these good art team folks have gone through.

5) Man, if you've got a better idea? Way cool! I'm all ears and eyes! Just go over to the art team websites, read the rules, (and stick to em') and show me the magic!

I mean ... seriously ... what the h*ll could anybody do with a lump of Sulphur?!? <..:rolleyes:..>


Dan

[bob]

Just a quick comment, but I don't believe that 'just anyone' could vote or propose for the theme. As I recall, you had to have a working relationship with Fedoraproject.org. Anyone recall if that was the case?

[Aaron_H]

Dan,

I appreciate and 100% agree with everything you've said. I would just like to say that I wasn't actually complaining about the artwork. It IS good, but I would much prefer to keep my old theme from F8 (Linux is about choices and that's one that I'm making), just as a lot of people don't mind because they'll be changing their wallpaper anyway. - Like one poster said, it's hard to make only 1 wallpaper that will please everybody.


I'm pretty new to Fedora, so I wasn't able to post any feedback this time around. Next time I will try to help as much as possible (I may even contribute something myself, but I doubt it will be as good as anything that they've already done).

The codename isn't that bad though really.. there are a lot of things it could be taken to mean. (Reactivity to the ever changing computing environment for one - just a guess, but it's the first thing that popped in my head)

[Dan]

Just a quick comment, but I don't believe that 'just anyone' could vote or propose for the theme. As I recall, you had to have a working relationship with Fedoraproject.org. Anyone recall if that was the case? According to Nico Buculei, (Art team email -- dated 11/13/2007 01:58hrs local) it is not an open process regarding the codename. However, As I recall, either Martin or another member posted here earlier in the process asking for direct community feedback on the developing art proposals.


EDIT: Info on release names

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Names?action=show&redirect=Core%2FReleaseNames

Info on artwork feedback

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=177882&highlight=Artwork

Can't say I didn't give folks a "heads-up!" <..:p..>
I think it would be fair to say that if someone turns down the option of being constructive here, I'm likely to take a pretty dim view of any bad tempered griping later on.

[stefan1975]

Awright. <..:mad:..>

I've set back and let this one go on without comment from me till now, and I should probably err to the side of caution and delete this before I post it. I guess we'll see if that happens or not. <..:cool:..>

If it doesn't ... there are some things you folks might want to keep in mind.

1) The art team is an unpaid volunteer community resource. They give us the best of what they've got out of the goodness of their pea-pickin' lil' ol' hearts!

2) They build on what they've been given. Including a release codename, community input, collaboration and feedback. (How many of us took a minute of our time, wandered over to the art list and suggested alternatives when they called for feedback?)

3) If creating art, from concept to final execution, was all that easy, everybody and his dog would be creating masterpieces.

4) None of which is to say we don't have some squawking room, here. Opinions are fine. I'm not a raging fan of either the codename, or the limitations it placed on some very talented people on the art team. But it is important, I think, to acknowledge and respect the efforts these good art team folks have gone through.

5) Man, if you've got a better idea? Way cool! I'm all ears and eyes! Just go over to the art team websites, read the rules, (and stick to em') and show me the magic!

I mean ... seriously ... what the h*ll could anybody do with a lump of Sulphur?!? <..:rolleyes:..>


Dan

well you're right of course and me personally? I couldn't draw a circle if my life depended on it. I never meant to disrespect the awesome work the talented art people in fedora are pulling off every time. I just think that after the bubble, balloons and eternity this (so far at least .... i mean it Is still in Alpha, right?) feels like a somewhat of a let down.

Then again I guess you are right, Sulphur is not really the best of subject to work with, I can't think of anything to do with it. Maybe they should just go with a F8 like wallpaper and skip the lump of sulphur alltogether.

stefan

[Demz]

i reckon we should call a fedora release Arrogant B*stard since the majority of us would drink beer anyway :D

[Dan]

Hmmm.

Seems more fitting of the latest elive release. <..:p..>

[Demz]

i wouldnt know much about elive,, never interested me enough to bother downloading it

[bob]

Actually, the distro is very good for E-17, but I don't particularly like being held up for money just to try out the final version. It's the developer's decision, but with so many excellent distros out there and no cost, I'd think he's making a mistake.

[Demz]

may as well pay for a MS OS if your gonna pay for elive...

[juanfgs]

Actually, the distro is very good for E-17, but I don't particularly like being held up for money just to try out the final version. It's the developer's decision, but with so many excellent distros out there and no cost, I'd think he's making a mistake.
I'm kind of confused with elive, It uses a lot of GPLed software, yet it's licensed on a CC-BY-NC-SA licence, is that legal?, I think that kind of CC license totally violates the GPL. Maybe someone who knows about licensing can enlighten me(pun not intended) a little about that.
About the main topic, I like the sulphur style, also I don't believe that artwork it's a main problem when I'm choosing a distro, however Fedora has the best artwork around since Fedora 6.

[stefan1975]

well fedora 8 was codenamed "werewolf" but the theme was still awesome, i mean it wasn't brown and black with fangs at all. so a brilliant theme does not Have to refer to the codename...

stefan

[Aaron_H]

may as well pay for a MS OS if your gonna pay for elive...

But does that mean the only reason you're using Linux is because it doesn't cost to use it?

Surely paying for a good operating system isn't a problem. Although I know nothing about elive, i'd pay for Fedora provided the cost was right (otherwise I'd just use another Linux distro), but I wouldn't want to go 100% back to Windows because I prefer a Linux based operating system.. The cost doesn't really come into it.

[MarkS]

Yeh, the wallpaper does look like Kryptonite poopoo left by Superman on a dark, rainy alley.

However the fact that this is an important, even decisive, issue for some boggles the mind.

[nicubunu]

I join this topic a bit late, but I'll try to clarify as much as I can.

The best place to give feed-back about the ongoing theme creation is the Fedora Art (https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list) mailing list. Some of us also talked, and asked for feed-back, on our personal blogs, which are aggregated to Planet Fedora (http://planet.fedoraproject.org/) . I also try to put on FWN the relevant item when there is something of interest.
This forum should be also OK, but we don't actively monitor it, so for the best is useful to notice the mailing list when there is a good topic (I noticed this discuss by chance).

During the 3 round process, this particular theme, Waves with a sulfur crystal was the one that received the most positive appreciation and the most contributions - this is the main way we judge themes, by people contributing to them.
I personally think Waves without the crystal would be a bit too bland.

The meaning of the blue fire was the color identity: you know, Fedora's color is blue, just as Ubuntu is brown and SUSE green. It was an attempt to diminish the overal blue on the image and use blue as a secondary color element, the blue fire (that is a particularity of sulfur, it burn with a blue fire). After that, we slowly got back and used blue as main color too (but that really depends on the hour, the background color will be changing, just like in F8).

Indeed, we are all unpaid volunteers. Even if some of the team members are Red Hat employees, they are not payd to work on Art, they do it in their spare time. We try to have a low barrier to entry and welcome everyone is willing to join the team, there a re a lot of open tasks, not only the desktop wallpaper.

To become a contributor, that it, to get his work inside the distro, there is a condition: you have to sign the CLA and get edit rights to the wiki. That is all.

And we didn't think about Kryptonyte, but it is indeed interesting (even if the Krypronite is green)

[drunkahol]

Goodness,

I didn't expect this thread to generate as much interest!

I don't think anyone is disparaging about the quality of work done by the Fedora Art team. I certainly hope not - everyone who gives time free for testing, translation, coding, art, sounds etc should be thanked for their time. It is most appreciated my the vast majority of the community.

In this instance, however, I'm trying to plot a course that will cause offense to no-one, but achieve a default wallpaper that is quiet, flowing, elegant.

It's an image thing. The first thing the majority of the world will see of Fedora is the wallpaper when screenshots are posted on osdir and such places.

The F8 wallpaper is excellent in my view. It is the direction that wallpapers should continue going in. It's a smooth, calm, elegant design that has no focal points on the screen and doesn't generate background noise to detract from the icons on ones desktop. If someone WANTS that noise - by all means change the background.

But we should be striving for a clean look for Fedora. Puttng yellow crystals with a blue flame will mean absolutely nothing to the vast majority of users. But worse than that, I fear it will make no sense to them either.

You SHOULD never judge a book by it's cover. But people DO. They do EXACTLY that. The default wallpaper is of more importance than I think most people estimate. Responses of "you can change it if you don't like it" just don't count. It shouldn't be a case if if I don't like it. I should be changing it because I like something else MORE. NOT out of dislike for what is already there.

It's perhaps late this time round to change things, but I hope the F10 default provides a step forwards in quality. Which is something I'm loathed to say isn't the case for the F9 default at the moment.

Cheers

Duncan

P.S. The caveat at the top still applies. I'm grateful for all the work people put into Fedora - and I do contribute in testing myself. Although perhaps not as much these days as I would like.

[RahulSundaram]

Hi,

Well I haven't seen a single release where everybody liked the default look and feel. it has always been the case that some will and some won't. Pleasing people with very different tastes just doesn't happen and I don't see a solution to that excepting changing it to what you want. Saying it is not quality work unless you like it doesn't seem very interesting.

[Nokia]

I really doubt that most of those complaining are in fact kept from doing their daily tasks because the default wallpaper is not according to their taste. It's sounds like "demented admins enforce the usage of only one wallpaper-the distro's default" :D Who keeps them from changing it accordind to their own moods/tastes ? In the end, it's more like a matter of "hmm, i don't have anything (productive) to say, so I might just male noise and comment against...the next thing. Anyone seen Rebel Without a Cause ? :)

[Demz]

Hi,

Well I haven't seen a single release where everybody liked the default look and feel. it has always been the case that some will and some won't. Pleasing people with very different tastes just doesn't happen and I don't see a solution to that excepting changing it to what you want. Saying it is not quality work unless you like it doesn't seem very interesting.
i tried telling people that, personally i think people are just to lazy to change wallpaper so they complain about the default,

[drunkahol]

Well I haven't seen a single release where everybody liked the default look and feel. it has always been the case that some will and some won't. Pleasing people with very different tastes just doesn't happen and I don't see a solution to that excepting changing it to what you want. Saying it is not quality work unless you like it doesn't seem very interesting.

It's not a question of everyone liking the default theme - it's a question of minimising the number of people who DON'T like it, then maximising the number of people who DO like it. Note that those tasks are NOT the same thing.

And please don't misquote me - deliberately or not. I have NOT claimed the F9 wallpaper isn't quality. My opinion is that it is not of the same quality as the F8 wallpaper.

Nokia:

You can doubt anything you want. But it is an incontrovertible fact that people make decisions on things very quickly - and nearly always based on the initial looks. Some people love the new VW Beetle - some absolutely hate it. Some people love the look of Ubuntu while others can't stand it. Again - my point is that we should be INCLUDING as many people as possible with the default theme. Simple, clean, elegant.

Demz:

That's just plain ignorant. For the sake of repeating myself - it's got nothing to do with being too lazy to change wallpaper. But users should change wallpaper because they like something MORE - not because they don't like what they see on the screen!

With an open community like that of Fedora - we have to be able to listen to criticism properly. There will always be differences of opinion, but these shouldn't get in the way of doing things effectively. Slamming comments as being from people "too lazy" or "don't have anything (productive) to say" is pretty poor stuff. If you're unwilling to contemplate something as being a problem, then you have demonstrated a closed mind set.

It's similar to the balance between fixing bugs and developing new things. You can't just hammer down the road of constant development, because bugs have to be fixed. People DISLIKE bugs. People LIKE new features. First reduce the number of things that people dislike - then increase the number of things that people like.

Cheers

Duncan

[bob]

Actually, I've just installed the Beta and grabbed the potential new wallpaper and it looks pretty good. Naturally, as with Werewolf, the wallpaper didn't have to represent the theme name, but I applaud the artists' efforts to work with a difficult subject.

[RahulSundaram]

Hi,

Well now you seem to be implying that more people won't like this background. I don't see how you arrive to that conclusion at this point especially since this artwork isn't final. You might want to do a poll after seeing the artwork integrated with the distribution and see if that is indeed the case.

While criticism is indeed useful, it is currently not directed at the artwork people who are found at

http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list

Providing more detailed feedback on what is wrong and providing your own ideas on what you would like to see, maybe with examples and mockups would be more useful than simply stating you don't like it. Other than that, as you can see in this thread already, opinions on what is a good background differs wildly.

[drunkahol]

Hi,

Well now you seem to be implying that more people won't like this background. I don't see how you arrive to that conclusion at this point especially since this artwork isn't final. You might want to do a poll after seeing the artwork integrated with the distribution and see if that is indeed the case.


I make no such implication - and have reached no such conclusion.

What I am trying to do is counter the response that came back of "if you don't like it - change it". It should NOT be a question of users not liking it. If the users don't like it - then something has already gone wrong.

What users should be thinking is "I'll change to this because I like this one MORE".

Simply replying with the comment "if you don't like it - change it" is not an objective point of view. It shows an amount of disregard that I'm disappointed to see.

And as for the point of view "you can't please all of the people all of the time" - it should never come to that. To try and please all of the people all of the time is completely the wrong direction to come from. Since you are never going to please all of the people all of the time - put some effort into alienating as few people as possible with what you do.

It's not a bad background. Having said that, I wouldn't use it.

As for doing a poll . . . this is FedoraForums right? A place where the vast majority of visitors are Fedora fans of one degree or another. It is nearly the entire point of my post that people are prepared to accept what is released by Fedora and defend it to the hilt regardless of the issues. This is what keeps a million and one flame wars going.

I also know where to go to inform the Art team of my thoughs. But again, this is FedoraForum right? A place to discuss Fedora issues. If my thoughts are roundly rubbished, then I would retire and reconsider them. As it happens, they haven't been rubbished. I have achieved what I hoped - a discussion! And yes - there is as great a range of opinion as I expected. I'm just disappointed to see quite so many blinkered responses.

Thanks

Duncan

[RahulSundaram]

Hi,

Again, I don't see any wallpaper that some people would not like. How is subjective preferences indication of something wrong with anything? If you find any such artwork, feel free to post it. Note that while I suggested a poll, I didn't suggest one in this website. A discussion here might want you want but it is in effect going to really change nothing. Just a pointer.

[Adesso]

There is something there about the optic that kinda leads the masses... and I was not one of the Baloon fans... For me however, it all about what under the hood... the optics is not that important.. and hey.. changing a wallpaper is sometimes fun.. :D

How about they use the slick smoothe mega super zen simplistic version for the live CD.. and the good old normal whatever surprise, for the rest of the folk.. Then almost everybody is happy... Just a thought..:)

[iamvoyager]

I don't like the theme at all - mostly because it looks kind of amateurish ... I don't mean the art quality looks that way, what I mean is that it looks overly pre-teen dramatic. Something some "kewl" 15 year old would use. I have the same sort of thoughts about the black theme for Vista (and actually some Linux distros, judging by screenshots). I mean, come on... how can you expect to be taken seriously using a black theme?

I absolutely love the Fedora 8 theme. I am hoping it is easy to keep it when I upgrade? Will it still change colors throughout the day?

I didn't personally use Fedora 7, as I started with Linux in late November, but I actually thought the Baloon theme was rather clever. I would have changed that background myself, but I think it was neat nonetheless.

I also like the Fedora 6 and 4 backgrounds, looking back at the screenshots.

[Aaron_H]

iamvoyager, you can keep the F8 theme when you move to F9, just copy the /usr/share/backgrounds/infinity folder including the .xml file to your F9 install and then change the wallpaper to the xml file in gnome, this will keep the transition. :)

[iamvoyager]

Thanks Aaron.

I guess I don't really need to copy the folder at all, since I'll be upgrading (the installer doesn't delete your files, does it?)

Is there any place I can download the themes from prior versions? I am surprised they aren't included, as the default wallpaper selection is moderately limited.

[Aaron_H]

I'm sure you can download the themes from older versions, although I'm not sure where from. (I know you can download infinity).

I don't think the upgrade will delete the folders, so you shouldn't have to do that. But some people do have problems upgrading (hopefully this will be fixed) and a clean install is the recommended path (and the one which I will be taking), so unless you have to do a lot of tweaking once you setup, maybe a clean install would be the best option (this is also one of the reasons why people mount /home as a seperate partition, so they can put all their files in there when they reinstall).

I hope this helps.

[lacalaca85]

I personally like the F8 theme too (although I am "stucked" with FC6 until I finish my thesis work...). I also like the sulphuric crystals of the F9 theme, but the I quite disagree with the burning "thing". Its makes me feel that the flames and the crystals are not connected, like someone grabbed a spray (-tool), and just put some blue stuff around the crystals.
(No offense for the art team of course, the crystals and waves are great. :cool: )

So when I finally will have the time (and the nerve :) ) to upgrade my boxes, I think I'd prefer the "alternative" theme, whitout flames:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F9Themes/Waves#head-48380ec4d2905d596b2cef1819b6adb29bb5f7f8

If it will exist, of course...

[stefan1975]

well I guess more people agreed that the theme up till now wasn't the best ever because today's updates gave me a whole new desktop. I must say that this time around it is looking MUCH better then the wallpaper/splash/grub/etc with the crystals. The stars and waves make a real slick looking desktop, now lets see if it changes over the day!

way to go art team.
stefan

[iamvoyager]

mind posting a screen grab?

[Dan]

That was the results of a last minute effort pulled together by Mairin, and then built on by other team members after they received a fair amount of negative feedback on the crystal version. But, you are quite right. One more time, the whole art team has done one a heck of a job.


Dan


EDIT: Leigh already did. http://www.fedoraforum.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=4270

[leigh123linux]

mind posting a screen grab?


http://www.fedoraforum.org/gallery/file_4gallery/7/8/2/7/3/screenshot_7504.jpg

[iamvoyager]

That looks rather nice!

Good work art team :)

[tw2113]

Yeah, many peoples voices caused us to change it.

And yes, if everything went well, you should still get changing colors over time as well as, i believe, dynamically chosen resolutions depending on yours.

[mbokil]

Here's Fedora 9 beta with the latest updates applied. I installed the gtk-murrine-engine since I like the themes. I have audacious running with mp3 libraries from Livna. I removed swfdec and installed Flash from Adobe's sites since I missed youtube and had trouble with Mozilla Seamonkey locking up. Pulseaudio is working nicely and my HP printer was recognized after running printer setup. My external USB drives were mounted automatically. Looks very nice.

[bob]

I appreciate the artists willing to put so much effort into a design and then scrap it and start anew when the tone turned a bit sour on the sulphur theme. We are very fortunate to have such talent. Hopefully we will give them nothing but positive feedback for their work..

[Demz]

whats happening with the Echo-Icon-Theme? or that not ready for F9?

[RahulSundaram]

whats happening with the Echo-Icon-Theme? or that not ready for F9?

Well, you already asked and I already answered but Echo is not ready yet. A new icon theme is a hell lot of work these days and we don't have enough artists working on it currently.

[Demz]

sorry Rahul, i remember i posted it before but i been having problems with the forum, so i probably missed your post .. so if thats the case, is there a chance it'll be ready by Fedora10?

[RahulSundaram]

Hi,

I have no clue and I rather not guess at this point. We don't really have a urgent need for a icon set IMO. The current default is unobtrusive and stays out of the way. People might not dream about it at the night but I dont hear any complaints either. I guess it is not a burning point to consider anymore.

[Demz]

thanks Rahul for the explanation :)

[strikeforce]

On a side note I have just packaged up a new gnome-theme-extras package yesterday. I'm hoping it makes it into F9 final and it should provided a sync happens in the next couple of days.

That has another new theme and icon set so give it a go.

[Demz]

thanks Strike,,

[Aaron_H]

I like the new background, it looks nice. :)
I much prefer it to the sulphur background (which wasn't bad, just not to my taste).

As bob said, this really shows the talent and the dedication of the art team. (I installed the echo-icon theme yesterday too, and that looks nice so far too. Hopefully this will be ready sometime in the future)

[Demz]

I like the new background, it looks nice. :)
I much prefer it to the sulphur background (which wasn't bad, just not to my taste).

As bob said, this really shows the talent and the dedication of the art team. (I installed the echo-icon theme yesterday too, and that looks nice so far too. Hopefully this will be ready sometime in the future)
hopefully.. Maybe by F11 or 12 ..by the sounds of it there not overly concerned with the icon set

[iamvoyager]

Oh, wow, I just took a look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment

Most of those icons are kick-ass :)

[martin.sourada]

whats happening with the Echo-Icon-Theme? or that not ready for F9?

Just go to Echo Icon Theme homepage (http://echo-icon-theme.fedorahosted.org), there's always the newest info and icons. From time to time (when something major happens) I also send a message to art-list, so it might get picked into LWN. Anyway, we hope to be able to ship it with F10, but given that only two of us are working on it (in our spare time), it's something like: "you'll never know". If there were more people willing to help, the progress would be faster. It's quite easy to join the efforts.

[juanfgs]

I just downloaded and installed the new Nodoka engine (7.0) and metacity theme. Congratulations to the art team and thanks for such a great work, it's really beautiful. :)

[martin.sourada]

For those interested in the current state of things in rawhide, I updated the wiki page with the waves artwork:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F9Themes/Waves/Round3Final

It now has the new GRUB and wallpaper.

[Demz]

Just go to Echo Icon Theme homepage (http://echo-icon-theme.fedorahosted.org), there's always the newest info and icons. From time to time (when something major happens) I also send a message to art-list, so it might get picked into LWN. Anyway, we hope to be able to ship it with F10, but given that only two of us are working on it (in our spare time), it's something like: "you'll never know". If there were more people willing to help, the progress would be faster. It's quite easy to join the efforts.
thanks martin. looking now,, understand it would be faster, its Not so urgent for the icons as far as Rahul has said anyway .. i just gathered Redhat/Fedora wanted the icons ASAP .. being in RHEL6

[RahulSundaram]

Hi,

Branding is typically different in Fedora from RHEL. If somebody wants something that urgently in RHEL, they would pay people to do that work. We can't and shouldn't pressure community volunteers for that.

[Demz]

Hi,

Branding is typically different in Fedora from RHEL. If somebody wants something that urgently in RHEL, they would pay people to do that work. We can't and shouldn't pressure community volunteers for that.
ohh okz..just an assumption of what i thought redhat was gonna use in RHEL6 , kinda why i thouht it was being pushed ,

[leadgolem]

Just go to Echo Icon Theme homepage (http://echo-icon-theme.fedorahosted.org), there's always the newest info and icons. From time to time (when something major happens) I also send a message to art-list, so it might get picked into LWN. Anyway, we hope to be able to ship it with F10, but given that only two of us are working on it (in our spare time), it's something like: "you'll never know". If there were more people willing to help, the progress would be faster. It's quite easy to join the efforts.I've got a bunch of .svg icon's I made. I also have a bunch I adapted from pieces off of openclipart (http://www.openclipart.org/). The problem is that they don't follow your guidelines.

I actually made them for my own personal project. You can get a preview here (http://forum.freegamedev.net/index.php?t=msg&th=909&start=0&S=4aad32e700679183973b3bc791f463a6). If you are interested let me know, and I'll gather them all up and send them to you.

[Nokia]

I've got a bunch of .svg icon's I made. I also have a bunch I adapted from pieces off of openclipart (http://www.openclipart.org/). The problem is that they don't follow your guidelines.

I actually made them for my own personal project. You can get a preview here (http://forum.freegamedev.net/index.php?t=msg&th=909&start=0&S=4aad32e700679183973b3bc791f463a6). If you are interested let me know, and I'll gather them all up and send them to you.

I like it a lot.

As a personal note, they look less than spectacular when having Negative plugin enabled on Compiz. So if you ever try releasing it as a theme, please consider a Compiz variant where all the icons to be actual negative images -thus by enabling Negative to the icons would appear as on a normal viewed screen. :)

[martin.sourada]

I've got a bunch of .svg icon's I made. I also have a bunch I adapted from pieces off of openclipart (http://www.openclipart.org/). The problem is that they don't follow your guidelines.

I actually made them for my own personal project. You can get a preview here (http://forum.freegamedev.net/index.php?t=msg&th=909&start=0&S=4aad32e700679183973b3bc791f463a6). If you are interested let me know, and I'll gather them all up and send them to you.

Yeah, they don't follow the guidelines, but you've certainly got potential :)

[leadgolem]

Yeah, they don't follow the guidelines, but you've certainly got potentialThank you.:)
I like it a lot.

As a personal note, they look less than spectacular when having Negative plugin enabled on Compiz. So if you ever try releasing it as a theme, please consider a Compiz variant where all the icons to be actual negative images -thus by enabling Negative to the icons would appear as on a normal viewed screen.Thank you, and what? I'm afraid I do not understand the second part of your reply.

[kagenotatsu]

Is the Sulphur them going to be included in F9 at all? I thought it was kinda cool (though, I thought the burning was a little over the top, I liked the crystals and waves that they had used.)

It would be neat if it were included as an extra wallpaper (like the birds and stuff are usually) since the art team went to all the work to go and design it.

If that doesn't happen, I suppose I could always go download a copy...

[iamvoyager]

One other minor comment -

the boot screen background color doesn't look quite right to me. Just thought I'd throw that out there. The contrast or something just looks funny to me. It draws your eyes to the background rather than the logo / loading box.

[Dan]

One other minor comment -

the boot screen background color doesn't look quite right to me. Just thought I'd throw that out there. The contrast or something just looks funny to me. It draws your eyes to the background rather than the logo / loading box. Posting such criticism here does not help the art team.

Go to the wiki, find the "communicate" link, join the mailing list, and offer your constructive advice there.


Dan

[iamvoyager]

Oh well...

[vorcigernix]

Sorry, I hate mailing lists. But people at fedora should look at gnome look, where are tons of good gpl wallpapers.
But, it's pretty hard to visualize sulfur. There are nice pics, but they are not free.

[Dan]

Sorry, I hate mailing lists. But people at fedora should look at gnome look, where are tons of good gpl wallpapers.
But, it's pretty hard to visualize sulfur. There are nice pics, but they are not free. Your relative fondness for mailing lists will have little or no bearing on the issue. Especially if you choose not to follow prescribed procedure to communicate with them. (the "fedora people") The blunt truth is, ferdora and their/our art/development teams have managed to struggle through quite nicely so far without succumbing to bad advice or resorting to third party art. The original community generated artwork here in fedora is indeed one of the hallmarks that make it the quality product that it clearly is.

And, the beauty of this whole Linux/FOSS/fedora concept is that, as a user, you are absolutely free to choose any art you wish to use, provided you don't violate copyrights in the process.

Again, bluntly, along with the bugzilla feedback system, this just isn't an issue. Especially if those wanting and wishing for change are also unwilling to go through even the sightest efforts to assist or affect that change through already established community channels.


Dan

[iamvoyager]

Which is the proper communication channel to let them know what we think of mailing lists?

[JN4OldSchool]

Hey folks,

Where would be the right place (apart from here of course, but that's just letting off steam) to give comment on the direction the latest themes are going in.

What I particularly have an issue with is the sulphur "crystal" thingy that looks like making it's way through as part of the default F9 theme.

I can't quite believe it! Seriously!

The Fedora 7 balloons were a big enough mistake - sure some people liked them, but a default wallpaper should be largely free of objects and items.

I just want to say something before the emperor starts walking down the street with no clothes on!

F8 has a nice flowing wallpaper. F6 DNA was also good. The F5 bubbles were a touch on the busy side. Beyond there my memory is fading.

Cheers

Duncan

<sigh> This thread came up while I was on "forced vacation" and it still amuses me. Mainly because I cant believe that it has generated 6 pages of discussion.

The Fedora 7 balloons were very tasteful, in fact, that is a beautiful photo. But...I agree that it is distracting for a default theme. But I did not object then, nor do I today. F8 will forever be known as the "buttcrack" wallpaper thanks to a forum member. He had a point, it really does look like a buttcrack. What, exactly, does this graphic represent anyway? The DNA? It was ok, again though, not my taste. But what do I know, I have used my traditional Tux wallpaper for years, though now I have a photo I just took, Jacksonville skyline, (see the gallery) as my temp wallpaper. It will soon grow old, as any of my attempts at change do, and Tux will be back in no time.

The point is, we all have different tastes and will never agree on what is "tasteful" and what isnt. Drunkahol argues somewhere around post three or four that this is an important consideration. I'm sorry, that is just arguing for argument's sake. If Fedora chose to use an obscene, or even a questionable image, then I would no longer use Fedora. That is simple. But to try to apply that philosophy to what the art team actually does deliver release after release is silly. You dont like sulpher? Change it. Are you running the default wallpaper now? I should start a thread, a poll, just out of curiosity, on how many actually stay with the default wallpaper. I mean, that is the FIRST thing that will usually get customized.

Personally, from what I have seen thus far, I do not like the sulpher wallpaper either. I am also not crazy about the default theme or icons. They will all be changed right after the Livna nVidia install and the yum update. Third thing I will do is customize my environment to what I like. It does not make one bit of difference to how I view Fedora. I have not kept a default wallpaper or theme in any OS since I started using computers with GUIs. Shoot, that is the fun of using a computer, you make it your own. Arguing about the default theme is about as smart as arguing about the color of the wrapper your chocolate bar comes in. Hershy has its art department also. The spend lots of time looking at demographics, market trends, generational tastes, psychology analysis...just to determine the color of the silly wrapper. Yet, as a customer, you know what a hershy bar tastes like. If you are fickel enough to quit eating hershy bars because they change the wrapper from dark, rich brown to, say, orange, then you need a reality check. Just close your eyes, pull off that offending orange wrapper, and enjoy the goodness inside.

There, glad I got that off my chest. Silly thread...

[xploder]

Just have to throw in my two cents here! I look at a lot of different distributions and I have used Fedora full time in the past. (I thought Fedora Core 6 was awesome!) Fedora 9 has a very clean and professional look and feel to it.

Everything in Fedora 9 looks good together. I noticed the refinements to the icons and to dialog boxes. The icons stand out to me and they just plain look professional instead of cartoonish.

The theme has the perfect shade of blue and the best possible effect for the toolbars.

The greeter and the default wallpaper look cool and still come off with a very professional look, the wallpaper's color could not be any better! I liked the original dialog box the greeter had better than the present one but I am on a wide screen monitor and that would make a difference.

In my opinion this is the best artwork I have seen in Fedora. Don't get me wrong, the artwork has always been good. I think Fedora 9 raises the bar on quality and it has a very professional look to it!

[sailor]

I have only liked a few of the default setups....but really, 52 posts on the subject? Just change already...sheessh! :p

[Dan]

Holy CRUD!

You mean ...

We can just DO that?!?


Wow! Freedom! Whudda thunk it?! <..:p..>

[vorcigernix]

Your relative fondness for mailing lists will have little or no bearing on the issue. Especially if you choose not to follow prescribed procedure to communicate with them. (the "fedora people")
Dan
I got it. But this is not about me. Mail is just bad way how to interact with community. I got around 50 important messages/day in work. I am active in this, ubuntu and xboxscene forums, I just can't have all these discussions (mostly about nothin') in my mailbox. So my message was something like "help me help you" topic.

The blunt truth is, ferdora and their/our art/development teams have managed to struggle through quite nicely so far without succumbing to bad advice or resorting to third party art.
Dan
That's right. I like clear schemes and wallpapers in fedora, at least 6,7,8. Bubbles was one of my favorites for long time. I was complaining about default wallpaper in Suphur preview.

[nicubunu]

I got it. But this is not about me. Mail is just bad way how to interact with community. I got around 50 important messages/day in work. I am active in this, ubuntu and xboxscene forums, I just can't have all these discussions (mostly about nothin') in my mailbox. So my message was something like "help me help you" topic.

And this is the crux of the issue :D The signal to noise ratio is much lower in mailing lists compared to forums.

And a mail client is much faster as an interface when working with very large amounts of messages - like at least a few hundreds a day.

Hint: use filters, lot of filters, to keep your inbox sane and mails sorted by topics.

[vorcigernix]

I understand your point of view. I know how to use filters etc..and at work I have very good client for it (Outlook 2007, kill me softly), but its still not an option for me. I just wanted to say that ubuntu launchpad and brainstorm are much better from my pov.

[nicubunu]

Are you aware that Launchpad is proprietary software (closed source)? So from a Fedora pov it isn't an option.

[polter]

Since I do have something nice to say I'll go ahead and say it. This batch of art looks really slick. I also liked the balloons but not the DNA theme. so I guess most people won't agree with me. (Whoohoo first post)

[vorcigernix]

1) yup, nicubunu is right, so my sorry here. I used it as example how it should work, as inspiration, using launchpad itself is no option even for me (I don't mind paying for software)

2) Look at art group at opensuse, they did really cool artwork for their actual beta. Artwork is ofcourse a minor issue for us. But new users look at screenshots first (half of ubuntu success is in human icons - which I hate - in my opinion).