FC2 install on partitioned/prepared 2nd HD

[Equisilus]

Greetings all,

I'm on a second attempt of getting FC2 onto my system. In order to avoid the potential partition table problems with installing and dual-booting with another OS, I've since purchased Norton's PartitionMagic 8.0 and have used it to alter my 2nd hard drive's (160 GB) partitions to look like this:

root = Ext3 = 2,000.2 MB (primary)
SWAPSPACE2 = swap = 2,055.2 MB (primary)
boot = Ext3 = 102.0 MB (primary)
* = Extended = 148,467.9 MB (primary)
tmp = Ext3 = 1,004.0 MB (logical)
home = Ext3 = 10,001.4 MB (logical)
usr = Ext3 = 15,006.0 MB (logical)
opt = Ext3 = 14,888.3 MB (logical)
Sub1 (F: ) = NTFS = 67,570.2 MB (logical)
SWITCH (H: ) = FAT32 = 10,001.4 MB (logical)
* = Unallocated = 29,996.4 MB

BootMagic is installed on hard drive 1 in its ~50 MB FAT partition and is assigned the drive letter G: (a 32 MB hidden DellUtility partition comes before it). It will be used to dual-boot my system between WinXP and FC2. The rest of HD1 is NTFS holding WinXP (80 GB C: ).

I have a few questions about this set up.

1. First up, which partitions do I need to set as "Active" (if any) on the 2nd HD in order for FC2 to boot? Yesyes, it seems like its an obvious answer (boot), but since /boot is usually in the root, I wasn't sure if both had to be active or just the boot. Do I need to even set it as active before the install or will the install program handle that for me? Remember, I am not using any of the partitioning or dual-boot software that comes with the install of FC2. I just want to put the OS onto already established partitions.

2. Since I can easily reconfigure the partitions on HD2, can anyone give any advice on whether the set up I've designed is good enough to play around with FC2? I put them all as Ext3 for simplicities sake, I don't mind the extra journalizing, and I think I have the sizes decent enough for programs and files, since most of my stuff will still be in WinXP for the time being. Any suggestions on size or file system type changes, if any? How about the partition order? Does that matter at all?

3. Is there anything else I need to do in order to simply install FC2 to HD2? I'm assuming that I can point the install program to all the proper locations for individual directories (ie. root = /, boot = /boot, tmp = /tmp, etc) during the installation itself. Besides setting up BootMagic after the install, shouldn't that be it before booting to FC2 and configuring it as required?

Thanks for your time and any advice. I was going to wait until the dual-boot/partition table corruption issue was corrected, but I'm anxious to get going with Linux. :)

[ilja]

During the installation there will be an option, where to install grub. Check the option advanced and then choose the MBR/beginning of harddisk/ beginning of partition. This will be the partiotion you will have to set active. But afaik you don't really need an active partition. (Let's say it this way, I don't know that I have ;) )
The partitionsorder does not really matter. But afaik it is better to put the /boot-partition first. During the installation you will have the chance to choose to mount the partitions with mount points like /boot and /opt ...

I find your question very good, so I gave you a + in the reputation :)

[Equisilus]

Thank you for your quick reply, ilja. I'm fairly new to Linux and FC2 specifically, as you may have noticed, so I'm not up on the way of things.

If I understand you correctly, I should be installing grub anyway, but to the root or boot partition of FC2? I had thought grub was only necessary as a dual-boot utility like BootMagic, so that I could avoid using it by having BootMagic. It says this in the BootMagic help:
If an OS installation gives you the option of installing the OS boot code to either the master boot record (MBR) or the partition, choose the partition. Otherwise, the OS installation will overwrite the BootMagic MBR and disable BootMagic.
and
After installing a new OS, you must run BootMagic’s configuration program to add the new OS to the BootMagic Menu. New operating systems are not automatically added to the menu.

Which is what you said, I think. Is grub the "OS boot code" to which BootMagic refers? :confused:

Thank you again for the help. I'll wrap my head around this stuff sooner or later. ;)

[ilja]

The problem is, that you have to give the Linux a plenty of information during booting (Kernel Name, Number, location, options etc), this is why you need grub. If BootMagic supports it, Ok, I doubt it, but maybe it can. So how I do it:
MBR is a Acronis OSselector installed, it starts /dev/hda3, on the beginn of which grub is installed and it starts the kernel. In my opinion the safest way.
And to your partitions, I think swap is much too big, usr and opt also and home and tmp are too small.

[Equisilus]

Ah, I see. In essence, my BootMagic will start grub, then grub will start FC2 if I install grub to a Linux partition. I think I can manage that, as long as grub and/or the install doesn't need to alter my partition table (which is the problem I want to avoid by using PM 8.0 in the first place). Does grub go to the root partition or the boot partition?

Thanks for the advice on the partitions. I've been trying to combine all the different advice I've been receiving from reading a variety of sources so I can adjust the sizes as I need. I'm far more likely to be trying out new programs/utilities in FC2 than actually doing much in the way of creating my own files (home), which is why I figured the opt and usr should be larger. Even on WinXP, My Documents folder only has about 4.5 GB worth of info saved, and that's after nearly two years. I can't imagine FC2 using up 10 GB anytime soon. The swap is 2GB because I chose the higher of the two pieces of advice I read (same as RAM or double RAM) and I like even numbers when I can. Besides, I have a lot of space. I'll increase tmp if I need to do so at some point, but I tend to keep things clean. I'll watch it, though, and make sure I don't get in a jam. I can easily resize it later, if need be.

As in the past, my concern with FC2 has been the partition table glitch that results in WinXP becoming unbootable, and requires a fix that no new Linux user would be able to follow (even the method to avoid the problem isn't clear). Ah well, I'll get it going someday. ;)

[ilja]

Ah, I see. In essence, my BootMagic will start grub, then grub will start FC2 if I install grub to a Linux partition. I think I can manage that, as long as grub and/or the install doesn't need to alter my partition table (which is the problem I want to avoid by using PM 8.0 in the first place). Does grub go to the root partition or the boot partition?

The Grub path is /boot/grub, I hope it answers your question ;)


To the partitions, I must admit, that my /opt/ directory is totally empty. But I have relative large /var/ and /etc/ directories. In /etc/ you have all the settings and in /var/ the headers from yum and apt are stored, so they are not little. So maybe you think about it.


Ah well, I'll get it going someday. ;)

Maybe. When I installed FC2, I had a new BIOS and didn't touched the MBR (I installed the grub into /dev/hda3, but the option is a bit hidden, so be awared and before you find it, don't click to install it totally. I think it's called advanced boot options), so I had no problems. I don't say, that there won't be problems with you, but why is starting with a Windows rescue-disc and doing fixmbr such a big problem?

[Equisilus]

The Grub path is /boot/grub, I hope it answers your question ;)

It does. Thanks! I take it that grub is fairly small, then, since my boot partition is only 100 MB. Although, I heard even this is considerable.

To the partitions, I must admit, that my /opt/ directory is totally empty. But I have relative large /var/ and /etc/ directories. In /etc/ you have all the settings and in /var/ the headers from yum and apt are stored, so they are not little. So maybe you think about it.

I would think about it, but then I'd have to know where /var and /etc directories are housed. Are you saying they are part of /home? Most suggestions indicate that Linux and packages can be easily installed on a 10 GB total sized partition (or even smaller) and still manage things fine. It's all rather confusing.


Maybe. When I installed FC2, I had a new BIOS and didn't touched the MBR (I installed the grub into /dev/hda3, but the option is a bit hidden, so be awared and before you find it, don't click to install it totally. I think it's called advanced boot options), so I had no problems. I don't say, that there won't be problems with you, but why is starting with a Windows rescue-disc and doing fixmbr such a big problem?

Well, no, except for things like this: "Do not panic and do not begin using multiple tools in an attempt to correct this error. Automated tools can be very dangerous. The actual changes that need to be made are minor and benign. By running 3rd party applications to recover a bootable Windows installation may cause you to lose your data. You have been warned." That's from the posted fix (http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2004-May/msg00908.html) for the problem. I've asked a couple of time for a newbie-styled description of the fix but no one seems willing to dive into it. Besides, I don't want to have to fix something if the problem can be avoided by taking preventative measures.

I guess it comes down to this: if I want to get FC2 installed, I'll just have to go ahead and do it and stop asking about it. :D

[ilja]

I take it that grub is fairly small, then, since my boot partition is only 100 MB.

100 MB is enough

I would think about it, but then I'd have to know where /var and /etc directories are housed. Are you saying they are part of /home? Most suggestions indicate that Linux and packages can be easily installed on a 10 GB total sized partition (or even smaller) and still manage things fine. It's all rather confusing.

/ is the root partition, so everything, that starts with a / is meant to be direct in the root directory. So /var /opt /etc and /home are in the same directory. For /home you can also say /~, so my user directory is /~/ilja/, so you can see, /~ means home and ilja/ means a directory, which starts later. I have my Linux on a 11GB Partition +10GB /home, and I never had any problems with it.

df -h
/dev/hda3 11G 4,2G 6,0G 41% /
none 126M 0 126M 0% /dev/shm
/dev/hda10 11G 5,8G 4,0G 59% /home

As you can see, I don't have any problems with storage. But if you divide such a big partition, why not giving a plenty of place for everything :D

I guess it comes down to this: if I want to get FC2 installed, I'll just have to go ahead and do it and stop asking about it. :D
I can say, when I installed FC2 the double-boot bug wasn't known and I had no problems. It doesn't mean that you won't have also problems, but it means that not everybody has probs, only the guys with older BIOSes.

[Equisilus]

Thanks for all the help and tips, ilja. I decided I wanted to test everything out the way it is, so I ran the FC2 installation (after mediachecking all the CDs, which passed). I didn't actually install FC2, but went through the entire setup until just before there was no turning back. Everything seemed to go okay, but I was left with one question.

At the point where you are choosing the mount points on your partitions, anaconda lists all partitions on your system. I go through and select mount points for all the partitions I have set up specifically for FC2 installation (/, /boot, swap (no mount), /usr, /home, /opt, /tmp) and this is done without a hitch. I tell it not to format any of them, and the display shows them correctly in the list of partitions afterwards. However, once I click next and move on (selecting where I want grub to install, etc), it never shows the partitions again for confirmation or to specifically say something like "You've chosen to partition/format/mount/use/change the following partitions:". How do I know if anaconda has everything right and won't be changing anything on /dev/hda or other partitions on /dev/hdb (all Linux partitions are on /dev/hdb)? It seems like there's a confirmation step left out, and the little help screen there doesn't explain what to expect.

Thanks for all the time and help with this. Except for the above question, I think I'm about ready to fully install sometime this week. :)

[ilja]

You specified all the mount-points. You see them. Why should he ask you? It won't change something, except for the things you have set. So I would hate an application, that would ask 5times before doing something. You will see, that most of the Linux programms don't have a security warning, so you have to know what you do before you do it :D

[Equisilus]

You specified all the mount-points. You see them. Why should he ask you? It won't change something, except for the things you have set. So I would hate an application, that would ask 5times before doing something. You will see, that most of the Linux programms don't have a security warning, so you have to know what you do before you do it :D

That is the point, of course. I have to know before I do it, and since there was no statement saying what I should expect, I had to ask here. All that was needed was an additional line that said: "Disk Druid will only change those partitions you have specifically added, deleted, editted, mounted, etc, and will not otherwise alter any partitions not in use by this installation program." It seems simple to me, and would allow new users to proceed with more confidence.

Remember, the Linux community would like to have itself grow. Making the entire process from installation onwards unfriendly to the majority of users who are not computer savvy is certainly not the way to go. I have a pretty decent understanding of computers from hardware to software, but even I have these sorts of questions. Afterall, I don't want my system unusable for any length of time. Suffice it to say, no one in the Linux community wants it to be an "expert-only" endeavour. In the end, it is easier to simply add, in detail, information that will allow a new user to dive in with minimal searching and questioning.

[ilja]

Ok, that's a reason. If you want, that the guys, who really decide know about this issue, you can post it to http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list or report a new bug at http://bugzilla.redhat.com , but before you do, please search if there is not allready this problem reported.

[Equisilus]

I just wanted to update anyone reading this in the future I've installed FC2 and the installation went without a hitch. I was able to add FC2 to my BootMagic menu, BootMagic starts up grub, and grub loads up FC2. Things seem to work okay, but I haven't done a lot of testing of my hardware yet. As soon as I find out how to update drivers (first step) and then install fixes/patches/packages, I'll be good to go.

Thanks again for the tips. :cool: