Call For Yum Frontend

[Bana]

I was thinking; yum is such a great package management program (very well designed except maybe for having to get all the headers) and stable, yet for some reason we expect the average home user to bust out his/her x-term and learn the in's and out's of yum CLI usage? (not to mention config file management :eek: ). Sure you might say, there is apt and synaptic, a wonderfully userfriendly combination but again: these would require the usage of yum and text line repo management to install on any stock fedora system.

I think it is seriously time to consider someone writing a yum frontend that could be included with the standard fedora desktop. With all of the gtk library resources available for python (what yum uses) I don't see it being more than a 'scratching an itch' project. Perhaps we could even host it here on fedoraforum.org?

Being a C++ programmer (somewhat) I don't see it as too hard to learn python and the pygtk libraries if that is what is needed, but it would be best if we could get seasoned developers working on this. I think I will post this on the fedora-devel-list too.

Thoughts?

[Ug]

*scratches his head*

I've heard that theres some other distro out there currently working on one, but I can't think for the life in me which one it is. Surely up2date could be fixed and given an overhaul though?

[Bana]

Hmm, I don't know about up2date, it IS made for updating files but I guess it wouldn't be too difficult to morph it into what is needed. Or better yet: combine synaptic with up2date and get a super package handler. Although this might be getting too complex. It would probably be best to just take the guts from up2date and use them as a framework basis for the Yum frontend. YuF?

As for the other distro that is attempting this, I can't find mention of them in google (although it was a very cursory search).

[Ug]

Or you could just use apt and synaptic. ;)

[Pegasus]

so do i :)

[Ug]

Want a yum frontend? Or Use Apt?

[Bana]

Originally posted by Bana
Sure you might say, there is apt and synaptic, a wonderfully userfriendly combination but again: these would require the usage of yum and text line repo management to install on any stock fedora system. Too much to ask of the uninitiated computer illiterate.

[redhat71]

iirc, i can run "up2date" with or without gui, but all i need to know is just one command --> "up2date"

i would prefer yum to be like this too, so that i don't have to remember another name

[mark]

I agree, a GUI for yum would be awfully nice to have. Synaptic is good, though still kinda confusing in spots (first update the cache, then browse the results, manually flag new updates, then upgrade). Something where one or two clicks would get the info, present a list of potential updates & ask if you want to do it...

Hmm...sounds a little like up2date - if up2date worked a little better/more consistently.

[theurge]

How about a entry in Firefox under the Help menu that says "Linux Update".

:D

[Pegasus]

Originally posted by Ug
Want a yum frontend? Or Use Apt?
I use Apt with synaptic.

[genci]

I agree, yum needs a graphical frontend. For the newbie, even using up2date can be confusing and this only updates current software packages.

I have been playing with Xandros 2.0 (standard edition) on a spare machine, and its Xandros Networks updating/installing/uninstalling apt frontend program is awesome. You can use it in a standard mode or expert mode for different levels of need, and select from different repositories. Every package is clearly explained and is separated into already installed, updates available and new categories. The main page of Xandros Networks lists critical security updates so that they are easy find.

This ease of use would be great to see in a yum package manager but I would imagine it would take a great deal of work to acheive. :)

[David]

curiously enough, I prefer using yum over synaptic. It might be run from the cli but it's much simpler and, imo, easier.

I actually don't think you can make yum any easier just by making it point and click but where a gui would score is in listing available packages which *is* sometimes confusing when a lot of entries are returned to the cli. It's also a little primative and doesn't lend itself over at all for non-specific browsing.

[Darkmage]

Originally posted by genci
I agree, yum needs a graphical frontend. For the newbie, even using up2date can be confusing and this only updates current software packages.

I have been playing with Xandros 2.0 (standard edition) on a spare machine, and its Xandros Networks updating/installing/uninstalling apt frontend program is awesome. You can use it in a standard mode or expert mode for different levels of need, and select from different repositories. Every package is clearly explained and is separated into already installed, updates available and new categories. The main page of Xandros Networks lists critical security updates so that they are easy find.

This ease of use would be great to see in a yum package manager but I would imagine it would take a great deal of work to acheive. :)

Basically this is what apt w/ synaptic package manager is. The problems I have with yum is the header files. It is just slow to get the header files and sometimes I have to wait and wait, staring at the cursor, just waiting for the header files to be download even with a broadband connection. The worst part is after all that waiting, I get a corrupt header file and then it has to go to another repository. I will not mind a gui interface as long as it improves yum.

[rogerdugans]

Personally I use yum, up2date and apt.

Apt first, as it is the fastest, then yum and up2date.

Sometimes all 3 WILL add something when doing an upgrade.
And I do run from the commandline for ease. ;)

But- I agree with the point that users new to linux may have problems with commandline stuff and a gui frontend would help out there- to be truly competive with products from MegaCorp Software (:D) ease of use for the unaware is important- give them what they are used to......

However, I must say that I dearly hope that commandline controls are NEVER lost in linux.......speed is king.

[foolish]

There is a distribution based on Fedora, but with XFCE4 as the default desktop environment, called Cobind Desktop. They are developing a yum frontend called yummy, here's a screenshot: http://www.cobind.com/images/desktop_screenshots/yumi.png

It looks very simple, but with some gnome-HIG-love and integration in the Fedora desktop it could be very nice. At least it's a start. If anyone intend to develop a yum frontend. why don't you help the one already in development.

The yummy website: http://www.cobind.com/labs/0001.html

[Ug]

The reason why I don't use YUM is simple. It downloads too many header files, and since I'm on a 56K this can take a very very long time. Far too long in fact to make using YUM a practical task.

Apt is much better from this point of view. (And there's a graphical front end).

[foolish]

I use yum, I have a fairly fast connection, and yum works fine here. The header issue is a non-issue here. yum is simpler to use, and where apt has caused me some trouble in the past, yum has never failed me.

A frontend would be nice. There's a similar discussion on the fedora-test list now, and it seems the general idea is a merge between up2date and system-config-packages with addittion. What are your toughts on that?

[Ug]

I personally think it should be a complete over haul if at all. A merger of two applications which at most are lacking, would have a very hard task of becoming a great application.

It would be best to start a fresh, with a clear sense of direction and purpose.

[Prometheus]

It seems like somebody could code a simple program that looked in a whole different mess of repositories and found the RPMS needed. It really doesnt seem like it would be hard to code a program that searched the different databases and presented the info in a graphical format. You know, have the pgm start, sync with the repositories showing what is new, and allow the user to click on the update/program they want and have the pgm download the RMS. If you really want it to be slick make it so it automatically installs the RPMS when youre done too. No more entering into YUM to install RPMS or using the command line to isntall. You could just include a line in the program with blanks, kinda like a template, that would automatically launch the command line and install the RPMS. Maybe im naive, but really doesnt seem that hard.

[Ug]

Originally posted by foolish
There is a distribution based on Fedora, but with XFCE4 as the default desktop environment, called Cobind Desktop. They are developing a yum frontend called yummy, here's a screenshot: http://www.cobind.com/images/desktop_screenshots/yumi.png

It looks very simple, but with some gnome-HIG-love and integration in the Fedora desktop it could be very nice. At least it's a start. If anyone intend to develop a yum frontend. why don't you help the one already in development.

The yummy website: http://www.cobind.com/labs/0001.html I knew I wasn't going mad!

(Just spotted this btw - :eek: )

[sailor]

I like yum the way it is...but a frontend is ok as long as it doesn't choke like up2date...

Isnt something like SuSE YaST what we are looking for?...it does it all...and quite well..

[David]

I don't see how it follows that something's automatically easier to use just because it utilises a gui instead of a cli. Sure I'd understand if we were talking about typing a complicated command using flags, pipes and variables, making it look like a small program but yum update xmms is pretty intuitive isn't it? I mean, it hardly requires a degree in system programming just to operate a keyboard.

I think making a gui just for the sake of it would be a waste of time. If it's designed to exploit cli short comings, eg. not typing stuff out (which is easy) but coming up with a decent package browser like I mentioned above (which isn't so tedious), then that would be great.

I don't think new users are necessarily afraid of the cli. In fact, I'm personally afraid of all the tabs and check boxes that make configuring parameters in windows an absolute nightmare. I do think that it would be a great idea to include a cli tutorial with the fedora distro though. In fact, I will probably post a separate thread on this some time as I think it's well worth the effort.

Darkmage, although it's not mentioned in the manual I'm sure there *is* a way to prevent headers from being downloaded every time and instead redirect to the ones already on disk. Unfortunately I can't remember what that flag is but I remember someone mentioning it in the #fedora channel on irc.

[mark]

I think the -C option in yum forces use of the local cache instead of downloading headers...

[foolish]

have a look at the new spec for the system-config-packages tool: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/config-tools/specs/redhat-config-packages/

[mark]

Originally posted by foolish
have a look at the new spec for the system-config-packages tool: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/config-tools/specs/redhat-config-packages/

Yep - that does look promising.

[zjimward]

I agree yum is easy as a cli utility. Of course I've been using tui environments for a long time. For this reason I could use Linux just fine without any gui frontend. On the other hand, gui environments are very nice for organization and it would be nice to have a front-end for users that don't want to use command utilities and have a quick button on their desktop or in their menu to run the program.

[Thoreau]

Originally posted by rogerdugans
However, I must say that I dearly hope that commandline controls are NEVER lost in linux.......speed is king.

i don't think that would be possible

[zjimward]

Not sure if this is the same Yummy frontend, but I discovered it today.

http://www.abo.fi/~tjunnone/yummy/

[micha]

Originally posted by foolish
have a look at the new spec for the system-config-packages tool: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/config-tools/specs/redhat-config-packages/
That looks perfect !

[Ug]

I'm a bit skeptical...

[Prometheus]

When aren't you, or the rest of us for that matter, skeptical? We need to be for the betterment of everything.

[mark]

Of course, skeptical comes from the Greek skeptiko - and the ancient Greek Skeptiks were the founders of "rational thought". ;-)

[Drenon]

if up2date worked a little better/more consistently.

In general a useful tip with up2date is to change the mirrors -

su to Root user in an xterm then:

gedit /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources

comment out your existing ones and put the two new ones in: (for example)

yum fedora-core-1 <http://....../1/i386/os/>

yum updates-released <http://...../updates/1/i386/>

[Ug]

Originally posted by mark
Of course, skeptical comes from the Greek skeptiko - and the ancient Greek Skeptiks were the founders of "rational thought". ;-) Geek.

[Jman]

That redhat-config-packages spec was what I was looking for: an integration of Add/Remove Packages and up2date, powered by yum and rpm. Imagine, no more editing two sets of source files for yum and up2date (or walking others through it).

If it kept a current list of update mirrors and was the default rpm handler it would be ideal.

It doesn't exist yet though.

[JonR]

I'm voting for a GUI to yum. The single biggest limiter for Linux uptake is the lack of reliable GUI interfaces to do this kind of thing. Ok, it's boring and command line will always be king, but if you are coming to Linux from a Windows environment it's like having a floor shifter after years of automatics. Yeah, it works, but if you see your system as a tool to help you work rather than as an object of interest in its own right then cli based tools are ultra-antediluvian, loads of hassle and a major disincentive.

[Ug]

I prefer to use GUIs over CLIs. Its much more user friendly.

[micha]

Yes, but sometimes the CLI way is much faster or easier. Oneday you'll taste that ;)

[foolish]

Having a GUI doesn't mean that we have to remove the CLI, with a yum front-end we'll get the best of both worlds.

[harlekin]

the commandline interface should be left unchanged. i think it can do all tasks u need without being complicated in syntax.

a gui would have another major advantage: u can see (as i am when using synAPTic) what packages in what version R currently available.and what packages r installed allready.

so i think, there is need for such a tool.
im favouring apt + synAPTic over yum just cos of this little feature...
(and btw cos it's a little faster gathering the headers [might be placebo] )

[erikwilliamson]

I have attached something that I whipped up this morning - WARNING: Use this at your own risk. I take no responsibility for any damage this may cause. There's guaranteed to be lots of bugs in this.

What this does is graphically list any available updates, lets you select which ones you want to install, and goes. Right now it doesn't show what other packages it has to update due to dependencies. This zenity (part of gnome-utils) is fantastic.

Writing interfaces to other parts of yum (ie installing new packages, etc) would be just as trivial. There's still lots of stuff that needs to be done with this, If anyone wants, feel free to take this and run with it.

Best,
Erik.

[cathal]

Apt and synaptic are brilliant and any updates to packages installed are marked for you. Couldnt be easier but i usually use the command line anyway, never really liked yum to be honested. Probably biased from my debian days, still use though only on server now.

[tuxinaredhat9]

Well, if all that you need now is a place to host we might be able to host it over at fedoradocs.net.

[Ned]

I guess one of the main benefits of linux is choice, and the fact that no one solution is imposed upon the user.

We have rpm, yum, apt, and up2date and synaptic front ends for them.

Personally, I prefer to just browse the repositories and ftp any packages I want and install them with rpm.

The front ends have their place and are useful for automatically resolving dependancies. I do find them somewhat slow at retrieving headers though.

That's where simple FTPing of packages and installing with rpm is nice. I updated a fresh install of FC1 the other day by simply d/l all the rpm update packages and simply doing:

rpm -Fvh *.rpm

A darn site quicker than up2date or yum :)

But still, linux IS about choice, so I say if you want another frontend, why not :)

Ned

[repeater75]

"How about a entry in Firefox under the Help menu that says "Linux Update"."

That almost made me fall off the chair. Classic.

[Rockmunch]

http://cobind.com/yumgui.html

Check it out.

They're working hard on it, and there is a beta version, to try.

It's free under the GPL.

What Cobind is trying to do, I think is to build a simplified distro on a Fedora base. They're using xfce, and fc1, I think.

I'm not affiliated with them. Just wanted to point out that there is a yum gui being developped, by capable people.

[zjimward]

Thanks, I knew they were doing a software manager, but I didn't realize that they were doing a yum front end as well. I was trying my hand at a frontend written in Python. Here's what I started on, but there's much to be done on it.

[foolish]

Thanks, I knew they were doing a software manager, but I didn't realize that they were doing a yum front end as well. I was trying my hand at a frontend written in Python. Here's what I started on, but there's much to be done on it.

Could you please provide a list of dependencies for this? I can't get it working. So far I've gotten wxPython. Still getting some weird errors.

[zjimward]

The only rpms outside of what came with Fedora that I used was:

wxPythonGTK-devel-2.5.1.5-1.i386.rpm
wxPythonGTK-py2.3-2.5.1.5-1.i386.rpm

I got these two rpm's from:

http://wxpython.org/download.php#binaries

Copy yum.conf to a path that you want and don't use the /etc/yum.conf. Even though it does nothing more than make a backup I wouldn't want you to lose your original if any thing were to go wrong. Then change yumCfgPath to the path you copied yum.conf

yumCfgPath = "/home/jim/data/dev/yfront"

If you run this program it doesn't know which dependancies that multiple update programs have and therefore is only good at installing every thing or one item from the list. Like I said it's there's lots to be done. Not sure it's even worth finishing or continuing work on if cobind is working on one.

[huh?]

saw this one somewhere.....yumi...tried it...seems to work

[huh?]

http://cobind.com/yumgui.html

try this one....it worked for me....little klutzy..

[yr2alex]

i use a yum frontend on my fc2 box when i'm trying to winover new linux converts from windoze or just feeling plane lazy and i got it from here http://cobind.com/yumgui.html

[Ug]

That url has been quoted 3 times on one page of this thread folks. It tends to help if you read the thread a bit before posting.

;)

[harlekin]

and there it is:

http://fedoranews.org/tchung/gyum/

dammit 2 late....

[Terrel Shumway]

The CLI is fine if for cron, or if you know what you want, but if you want to see what is available, the CLI is too slow. The easiest way to add this would be a simple yum shell: load the repository data, then give an interactive CLI prompt with the same commands that are available in one-shot mode

* I looked at the "Package Management Tool" spec on fedora.redhat.com
nice. but too little. too late: "Last Modified: November 19, 2003"
I prefer rough consensus and running code.

* I tried yumi/gyum. does the job--crudely, but it works.
(I couldn't get yumi to work, but the gyum fork did.)

* yumex is very close to what I want. nice superset of gyum features. Get the latest version from
http://linux.rasmil.dk/dnl/
(just two things missing:
1. sort/group/filter in the long lists
2. "details" pane with package information, dependency browser
)

[Paul_Vandenberg]

What is attraction of Yum? Everyone seems to love it, but I find Apt/Synaptic much more useful. For one, Synaptic categorizes the RPMs if you want. No Yum frontend I've seen does that. No flame intended, I'm just curious.

Thanks...Paul

[Shadow Skill]

I just use smartrpm on my desktop for installing apps. I don't quite trust it for system wide updates though so I use yum for that only because its more stable than the redhat tool.

[kosmosik]

I was thinking; yum is such a great package management program (very well designed except maybe for having to get all the headers) and stable, yet for some reason we expect the average home user to bust out his/her x-term and learn the in's and out's of yum CLI usage? (not to mention config file management :eek: ). Sure you might say, there is apt and synaptic, a wonderfully userfriendly combination but again: these would require the usage of yum and text line repo management to install on any stock fedora system.
no it wouldn't... :) I can set it up for you... just copy these to your terminal:
% su - -c "lynx -dump http://config.foo.tld/ | sh"
not so complicated at all... :)

I think it is seriously time to consider someone writing a yum frontend that could be included with the standard fedora desktop. With all of the gtk library resources available for python (what yum uses) I don't see it being more than a 'scratching an itch' project. Perhaps we could even host it here on fedoraforum.org?
yeah but why reinvent the wheel? I think that apt and synaptic should be included with FC also... now FC is more open and it will happen soon because apt is simply better.

[Finalzone]

What is attraction of Yum? Everyone seems to love it, but I find Apt/Synaptic much more useful. For one, Synaptic categorizes the RPMs if you want. No Yum frontend I've seen does that. No flame intended, I'm just curious.

Thanks...Paul
-Yum support metadatas, a feature introduced with FC3. Instead of placing all reposities in a single file, each one have their own file so you can easily add mirror url. Apt does not have that feature yet.
-Yum is bi-arch, it can be used on both 32bit and 64bits system.
-Default mananger for Fedora.
-Yum extended is getting better and is likely to be a successor of GYUM. Current version 0.30 just focused to get everything functional before starting extra deatils like categories, etc. Version 0.40 will be some improvment.

[Terrel Shumway]

What is attraction of Yum? Everyone seems to love it, but I find Apt/Synaptic much more useful. For one, Synaptic categorizes the RPMs if you want. No Yum frontend I've seen does that.

For me, the attraction is that Yum is written in Python, which I grok much better than C. Therefore, it is much easier for me to hack feature X into a front-end. With synaptic, I am stuck with what they give me.

With that said, it does seem a bit less mature than apt, at this time. But the Python implementation allows a much faster evolution, so that may change.