Why I dumped Ubuntu for FedoraCore 6 (and 7)

[n0name]

Well, I am seing that alot of people like Ubuntu, and it is understanable because it is so easy and there are guides of how to do stuff on it all over the internets etc. , I was using Ubuntu too, until recently. Found some article about Fedora7 and since being interested in Redhat, I installed it on my main laptop. The installation was really fast because I copied vmlinuz and initrd.img from the first CD to some partition and booted them with grub, after about 12-14 min the installation was done and I was able to log in to my new system (with gnome) and update it. The system-config-* tools are really great, and I <3 the artwork and SELinux, specially the artwork and icons on Fedora7, everything feels so consistent throughout the entire distribution. Most people new to Linux will find it really cool once they try it, but it takes a while getting used to rpm after using a .deb based system, it took me an entire day to figure out how to do stuff like networking configs and the repositories and package versions etc. Installing stuff is a bit slow, but faster when using 'yumex', but I dont really mind that, fast updates is nothing important =).

I think that there are several workarounds to making the package system a bit easier for the people that are new to Fedora or Linux in general, like a few scripts for making life as easy as possible with rpm, but I noticed that they have a Fedora link to HowTo's here: http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Fedora_FC6 which is also exactly what people need.

I have been using Fedora for about 4 days now, and it looks like I wont be switching to any other distribution anytime soon =), can't wait for the release of Fedora7.

[joe.pelayo]

You are right about Ubuntu, it is very easy for noobs (and that is good), however I think that once PCLOS is enough advertised (or something like that) it will replace Ubuntu (and it also uses Synaptic but with RPMs).

Welcome to the Red Hat world! I hope you can solve the problems that may arise, you will learn a lot in the process. Fedora is a Linux distribution to stick with, however nothing prevents you from dual booting with another distro.

Now I am happy with FC6, I will get Fedora 7 when it is officially released.

Joe.

[pparks1]

You are right about Ubuntu, it is very easy for noobs (and that is good),

I recently switched over my desktop to Ubuntu (had been FC1-6). I've been in the RedHat world for years and still use RHEL and CentOS on my servers at work (and have NO plans on switching).

While ubuntu is a pretty easy distro for noobs, I don't think that it can only be used by noobs. Even those with a lot of experience (who love the "under the hood stuff") can still easily continue to use Ubuntu.

[joe.pelayo]

I am not saying Ubuntu is a 'toy distro', just pointed out the fact that it is quite easy (but powerful as well). Personally I don't like its 'sudo' policy, but anyway no one is forcing me to use it.
The best from Linux is the choice!

[d347hm4n]

the only thing that i have taken from the ubuntu tree is nbuntu, grat for pentesting and sunday afternoon fun, have a look at backtrack, if your that way inclined

[pparks1]

Personally I don't like its 'sudo' policy, but anyway no one is forcing me to use it. The best from Linux is the choice!

It's funny, because I used to specifically setup my RHEL and CentOS boxes to use sudo the same way that Ubuntu does (before I even used Ubuntu). It was second nature for me when I first fired up Ubuntu.

I pretty much never logon as root. I got myself out of that habit years ago and it has served me well since. If I HAVE to become root for a few minutes, I just (sudo su -)

[Dies]

It's funny, because I used to specifically setup my RHEL and CentOS boxes to use sudo the same way that Ubuntu does (before I even used Ubuntu). It was second nature for me when I first fired up Ubuntu.

I pretty much never logon as root. I got myself out of that habit years ago and it has served me well since. If I HAVE to become root for a few minutes, I just (sudo su -)

Great, can you please explain the difference.

Because honestly I just don't get it, just seems like a pointless layer but since some people consider it important enough to go through the trouble I would like to understand why exactly, what's more secure about doing it that way.

[JN4OldSchool]

To the best of my knowledge the biggest threat is the user himself forgetting he is in his root account. I try not to ever use my root account but when I do I set my wallpaper bright solid red ala MEPIS to constantly remind me I am in root. I didnt like sudo at first either but as I use Ubuntu and I also have etch set up with it I am getting used to it. I still, ironically, have root accounts in each though.

[n0name]

Great, can you please explain the difference.

Because honestly I just don't get it, just seems like a pointless layer but since some people consider it important enough to go through the trouble I would like to understand why exactly, what's more secure about doing it that way.

Basically having to add sudo to the commands makes one develop a habit of doing only stuff that require root with sudo, though many use it for every command. I even use sudo on Fedora, I find it more convenient and can have a more 'limited' root environment and dont have to switch between users for running certain programs.

[joe.pelayo]

I don't like to use 'sudo' because it adds unnecessary complexity to the commands (ok, I am just lazy and don't like to be typing 'sudo' all the way). I don't like to log in* as root either (I too consider it risky), however I like to use su - when necessary and make the machine do my will without specifying it is an 'administrative' action.

* I define log in as starting a session in any DE like KDE or GNOME.

[Dies]

To the best of my knowledge the biggest threat is the user himself forgetting he is in his root account. I try not to ever use my root account but when I do I set my wallpaper bright solid red ala MEPIS to constantly remind me I am in root. I didnt like sudo at first either but as I use Ubuntu and I also have etch set up with it I am getting used to it. I still, ironically, have root accounts in each though.

Well, I just never log into the root desktop, unless something is seriously f :eek: d up and I don't have a clue how to fix it from a console.

Basically having to add sudo to the commands makes one develop a habit of doing only stuff that require root with sudo, though many use it for every command. I even use sudo on Fedora, I find it more convenient and can have a more 'limited' root environment and dont have to switch between users for running certain programs.

Don't get me wrong I can understand if you have a lot of users on your system and need a way of allowing some to do certain things but don't trust them fully, then I can see sudo being useful.

But on your average desktop, where you might be the only user, or maybe a few other people that you trust, it just seems unnecessary.

As far as Ubuntu, I completely understand why they would do it, because they are targeting newcomers and that's really the only way to prevent some dummies from logging in as root all the time.

But again I would like to hear a good reason, explanation. So far no one has given me anything other than they are used to it or it's more comfortable or whatever, nothing compelling though. <-- And I don't mean you guys, I mean in general whenever I've asked that.

[pparks1]

Like others have said, it's for security. Stay logged in as root as little as possible and you stand less of a risk of screwing up the system.

I use the sudo system for a number of reasons. These include
1. not having to provide anybody the root password for any reason
2. tracking who did what on the system. You can look in ~/.bash_history and see what commands they typed and find out who screwed with the system. When multiple people use su...then it just appears that root did it and that doesn't provide much help
3. sudo is great for documenting purposes. I setup my documentation so it can be cut and pasted. Well, you can cut and paste a command like (sudo echo 1 > some file) and any admin with sudo rights could cut and paste it without having to become root for a period of time and unknowingly doing something bad.
4. sudo gives you granular control on exactly which commands a person can run. This works great for somebody with limited needs (restart a service, modify a file, read a log file), without giving them the ability to do anything else on the system.
5. If you work with multiple admins, and 1 admin quits, typically you have to reset the root password on all of your devices. With sudo in place, you can simply NEVER provide anybody with the actual root password and therefore it's never necessary to change it or tell it to anybody.

Most of my reasons revolve around a production environment where there are mutiple admins who might need access to a server or may be on call.

And worse case scenario, like I said before, with something like ubuntu...you can use sudo to call su. Like this : sudo su -

Then you get a root shell and can be root until you type exit. Of course, this negates many of the security things that I mention above. :)

[Dies]

And worse case scenario, like I said before, with something like ubuntu...you can use sudo to call su. Like this : sudo su -

Then you get a root shell and can be root until you type exit. Of course, this negates many of the security things that I mention above. :)

That's exactly what I end up doing because I'm lazy. :D

[brunson]

I'm going to cast a +1 for sudo. This September will make 20 years of working on Unix.

If you use "su", you know if you quit out of your root shell you're going to have to type your password again, so you tend to hang out in it.

Since sudo caches your ability to use it for several minutes, as long as you keep using it, you don't have to reauthenticate. This allows me to use sudo for *only* the commands I need. If I'm moving around the filesystem, running a command here, modifying files there, observing processes, etc, only when I decide to commit to a privileged action do I have to use magical powers. An accidental "rm" in the wrong place gives me "permission denied" not a hosed system. This separation of powers has saved my butt on numerous occasions.

Also, "sudo -s" keeps my highly customized shell environment active, even if I am root, so all my aliases an interactive shell functions are available to me. I seldom use "sudo -s", I almost never actually log in as root, only when a machine is seriously damaged, and I don't think I've logged into a desktop environment as root in several years.

If you can't stand typing "sudo" you should work on your typing.

[Plossl]

If you use "su", you know if you quit out of your root shell you're going to have to type your password again, so you tend to hang out in it.

That's why I hold onto a root shell and a user shell in the same workspace. I'm just very careful about which one I'm using for a particular command.

[brunson]

That's why I hold onto a root shell and a user shell in the same workspace. I'm just very careful about which one I'm using for a particular command.
Not on my servers you don't ;-)

[brunson]

That's why I hold onto a root shell and a user shell in the same workspace. I'm just very careful about which one I'm using for a particular command.
But there's another thing... I'm rarely on the console of any machine I'm working on, I'm usually ssh'd in. I went to my co-lo for the first time in 18 months last week. I administrate machines I've never even seen. I'm not really sure where some of them are, and some are in countries I've never been to.

[Plossl]

But there's another thing... I'm rarely on the console of any machine I'm working on, I'm usually ssh'd in. I went to my co-lo for the first time in 18 months last week. I administrate machines I've never even seen. I'm not really sure where some of them are, and some are in countries I've never been to.
OK, well I can understand not allowing it in that situation. I'm talking about on my home system with sshd purposely removed - that's one of the first things I do after installation. And I'm behind a hardware firewall, so I think it's pretty secure.

[Dies]

Man, I thought I was lazy but Plossl you got me beat, you win buddy. "I keep two shells open" :eek: LOL.


@brunson and pparks1 - Thanks guys I appreciate your response, I just never took it seriously since I just play around with this stuff and at worst I'll lose the latest album or have to re-install while you guys really can't afford to deal with stupid ***** that could/should have been prevented.

But you've both made some good points, maybe I should get used to setting it up and using it now in case I ever do more serious work it will already be a habit.

[brunson]

But you've both made some good points, maybe I should get used to setting it up and using it now in case I ever do more serious work it will already be a habit.
It has saved my butt many times, but it doesn't prevent all mistakes...
sudo + command history + 115 WPM and muscle memory = ^Rrm<ENTER> -> sudo rm * = "AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!" ^C^C^C^C^C^C^C "*****... ***** ***** ***** ***** *****!!!" = Reload

I actually have a lines in my login and logout scripts that remove certain commands from my shell history.

[Wayne]

I think I'll start a thread on why I dumped my first wife for my second wife, my second wife for my third wife, my third wife for my fourth wife and my fourth wife for beer!

Probably just as meaningless as threads on why I dumped <put distro here> for <put distro here>

Wayne

[Seve]

I
Probably just as meaningless as threads on why I dumped <put distro here> for <put distro here>

Wayne
Hello Wayne:
Maybe some of the more talented script writers out there could write a forum macro for new posters along those lines. It would cut down on their typing and add some error proofing. :D
Sadly, it always seems to be the same thing .......

Seve

[Plossl]

Man, I thought I was lazy but Plossl you got me beat, you win buddy. "I keep two shells open" :eek: LOL.

Why, thank you, Dies. I like to call it "efficiency." :D

[Firewing1]

Finally, one of these threads - I was tired of all the leaving Fedora for Ubuntu ones :D
Firewing1

[sdowney717]

First think I did with ubunuts was to create a root account and let it log into xwindows.

I just play with linux at home.
I dont care about sudo.
I also back up my partitions with Norton Ghost so If I screw it up, I just restore the entire partition which only takes about 10 minutes.
Having good backups is so important and usually people dont do it.

[Dies]

First think I did with ubunuts was to create a root account and let it log into xwindows.

I just play with linux at home.
I dont care about sudo.
I also back up my partitions with Norton Ghost so If I screw it up, I just restore the entire partition which only takes about 10 minutes.
Having good backups is so important and usually people dont do it.

That's weird, first thing I've always done is disable root logins for gdm.

I felt the same way about sudo, but after setting it up I realized that there's another benefit to using it. You can set a really long and crappy, I mean strong :D root pass since you hardly ever have to type it in. That to me is worth it, so I'm glad I listened.

[lmo]

Tried Ubuntu and Debian.

Both were easy to install and seemed to work. However, in both cases, the stable versions do not have all the features I want and the unstable versions forewarn of being unstable.

Switched to FC6 and now I have a computer that works ... better.

[angryfirelord]

Tried Ubuntu and Debian.

Both were easy to install and seemed to work. However, in both cases, the stable versions do not have all the features I want and the unstable versions forewarn of being unstable.

Switched to FC6 and now I have a computer that works ... better.

If you're looking for a middle ground somewhere, try Debian Testing. I've used it and found it to be very stable.

[JN4OldSchool]

debian etch, though in testing is debian. The reality is it is more stable than fedora core 5 would be at this point in time. It is bullet proof solid. There are many people in here using that distro that will confirm this.

[SevenThunders]

After some headaches FD6 installed and now works without too much of a problem. I love it now, because it's so configurable and the software repository is large. Probably my biggest gripe is that firefox 1.5 crashes on certain sites probably due to adobe's flash plugin. I'm not sure if firefox 2.0 fixes that, but that's only available with some trouble on FD6.

As for ubuntu, I've installed it on various machines about 5 times over the past few years. Never once was I able to get all my peripherals working. Either sound would fail, it wouldn't recognize my wifi modem, the video card drivers wouldn't load or if they did it would break something else etc. Moreover the installs were on about 4 different computers with entirely different configurations. Contrast it with PCLinuxOS for example, which I installed on my daughters computer, happily blowing away it's ubuntu install. PCLinuxOS just works. Sound, wireless modem, sata drive, obscure nvidia graphics card built into the motherboard etc. etc. all recognized and working out of the box. Perhaps it's because of the free software religion ubuntu adheres to, that refuses to consider proprietary drivers I don't know.

[leigh123linux]

Perhaps it's because of the free software religion ubuntu adheres to, that refuses to consider proprietary drivers I don't know.


Ubuntu doesn't give a toss what dirty software they use ;)

[lmo]

I got tired of everything being brown. I prefer blue. I also got tired of getting my wrist slapped every time I tried to do something without sudo.

[lmo]

If you're looking for a middle ground somewhere, try Debian Testing. I've used it and found it to be very stable.
Tell me where I can order the Debian Testing CD and perhaps I'll try it. I'm using 56k and that's too much download time.

[Demz]

Tell me where I can order the Debian Testing CD and perhaps I'll try it. I'm using 56k and that's too much download time.
try http://www.linuxcd.org/view_distro.php?id_distro=8 or http://shop.cheapbytes.com/cgi-bin/cart

[leigh123linux]

I got tired of everything being brown. I prefer blue. I also got tired of getting my wrist slapped every time I tried to do something without sudo.

If you dont like sudo just do this command in your standard user account.

sudo passwd

[lmo]

I think sudo is great for launching applications, but for administrative tasks, I'm hooked on su.

[lmo]

Re: Debian - where to buy CDtry http://www.linuxcd.org/view_distro.php?id_distro=8 or http://shop.cheapbytes.com/cgi-bin/cartThank you for the info. However, I'm in an RPM mood right now.

[stuartindigo]

After fighting with Ubuntu for a couple of days I've also jumped into Fedora.

The distro itself seems more mature, and also the users of this forum.

I think ubuntu is ok as a desktop replacement, but from a server point of view fedora wins.

If I explain why I'm doing this you'll probably understand what I mean.

I run a couple of windows web servers, so am used to that environment, and my main desktop is running XP (I have a video capture device which only has windows drivers). I needed to set up a testbed server for a project I'm working on using mysql and php (running it on my desktop dev machine almost ground it to a halt). I also needed this machine to allow visitors to browse the net without danger of being killed by virii - hence linux.

I've been impressed that there are so many well-written tutorials for fedora. I think in this respect ubuntu is a little immature.

Just my 2 euro-cents worth.

Stuart

[tomcat]

An interesting read on sudo so far. But I have one major complain about Ubuntu and its sudo usage. They have sudo active for a full 15 (!) minutes. This is inacceptable imho. timestamp_timeout should be set to one minute, not more. That reduces the risk of someone hacking your system considerably. Everything else is asking for trouble.

The rest is personal preference and for me, Fedora and Debian feel better and have less nasty bugs. :cool:

[lmo]

timestamp_timeout should be set to 0 imho.

[tomoir_III]

I tried Ubuntu for about two weeks and I just wasn't really happy with the overall feel. Don't get me wrong, it's a great distro, both aesthetically and functionally, but the whole sudo policy and poor quality of apt-get in comparison to yum (although I did like that Ubuntu had way more packages than Fedora). But yum is just way more comfortable for me (with the little table it shows you before asking if you want to download and install), while apt-get just splatters a bunch of text on the screen.

Ubuntu is great, like really great for people new to Linux. (however, I did find that their forums were a bit harder to navigate than the Fedora Forums (which have been really great! :D))

So yeah, but that's just my opinion. And Fedora has more of a developing art-oriented direction than Ubuntu which only has the same theme for several releases. In addition, Fedora is much more capable of any purpose, what with the five CDs.

[Euman]

Edit /etc/profile
add this line "TMOUT=1200" after "HISTSIZE"
This will auto log you out of root after 30 minutes of inactivity.

TMOUT=600 auto logs root out after 15 minutes of inactivity... etc

[Euman]

think here is a bug in the quick reply system...sorry this ended up in this thread as it was intended for another thread.

[igknighted]

Edit /etc/profile
add this line "TMOUT=1200" after "HISTSIZE"
This will auto log you out of root after 30 minutes of inactivity.

TMOUT=600 auto logs root out after 15 minutes of inactivity... etc

Neat... I'll have to do this.

[Kaanx]

i understood that fedora is better than ubuntu

[JN4OldSchool]

i understood that fedora is better than ubuntu

Why am I still waiting for the punch line? :D

[BigWaxer]

I don't claim any distro as my favorite.

i love how people say this or that distro is for noobs. In the end its a way to cut people down... this sums up the entire problem with the Linux community. Not everyone has knowledge on any distro... It's not like those of us that have worked with *nix have some special privilege.

Use what works. I have used Red Hat / Fedora since Red Hat 5. The funniest thing is... out of all that time this current FC-6 and F7 is the only time I have run into problems. I blame ATI but... as far as real world desktop. This OS is not ready. Get off the high horses, use what works..

No need to bash another distro, while I have never been a fan of the .deb distro's it is a good / solid distro that honestly has a way better package management system then yum or rpm.

I stay with RH/FD cause I know where stuff is, just on experience but ya know what so someone uses Ubuntu, Mandriva, PCOL, .... Whatever do we actually need someone to announce they are using / trying something different? Makes no sense and just shows why Windows is still king.

[JN4OldSchool]

as far as real world desktop. This OS is not ready. Get off the high horses, use what works..

Ah man, why did you have to tell me that? I threw my XP disc out over 6 months ago...damn...now I guess I gotta buy Vista.....NOT! :)

[SDX]

My story:
The first distro I ever tried was Ubuntu. I wasn't all for the "brown" look and wanted something else. I tried PCLinuxOS and had that installed on my desktop dual-booting with windoze. I then decided to wipe windoze after loving the stability that only Linux can offer. When wiping windoze, I accidentally wiped PCLinuxOS. While having an empty hard disk, I wanted to try out some other distros. I tried several until I got to Fedora Core. I was sold on the 3D effects, ease of use, and the incredible performance. I won't be switching distros anytime soon, and I'm definetly NEVER going to use windoze again!

[fedejofa]

so, any conclution so far? debian is the best distro?
A question im not sure it should be here....the fill in option u got on some distros on the 'shell'...by using the tab option...can i add it to fedora?

[leigh123linux]

so, any conclution so far? debian is the best distro?
A question im not sure it should be here....the fill in option u got on some distros on the 'shell'...by using the tab option...can i add it to fedora?

I would agree that Debian is the best debian based distro while Fedora is the best redhat based distro :cool:

I think you can change the hostname in network under Dns

su -
system-config-network

[stanjam]

I do something a little different for sudo. I often use root for various reasons and I hate doing passwords all the time. I set up my sudoers file so that my main user can sudo without a password, then I set my .bashrc file to have an alias of god='sudo -i'

now if I need to get into root on the console for a while (with the full root path of su -) I can just type "god" and I am automatically root. Heh, lazy of me eh?

[brunson]

Get ready stanjan, you're about to be flooded by a dozen, "That's so insecure, you don't know what you're doing" messages. Or maybe this comment will stave them off. ;-)

[stanjam]

Believe me, as I am about to complete my masters in Information Assurance I am well aware of the security implications of what I have done. However this is my home machine and if, that is if, you are able to get this far kudos to you!

Granted this isn't secure as far as local administration, but the only people on this machine are me and my immediate family. There is no remote access to this machine. There is remote ssh access to my server through ssh. It is even on port 22 (for my students to get access to and practice Linux). However the ssh is buttoned down very well and there is no vital information on the server.

Security is a balance act. Security vs. ease of use. You should provide security in direct relation to what you are protecting. Simply bypassing password authentication for root access is a minor violation when compared to say, running Windows!

I am not a huge fan of password authentication anyways. It is very weak.

[brunson]

I'm not criticizing, everyone's security is a special case.

[stanjam]

I know, just thought I would hep you head off the comments!

[RupertPupkin]

Nothing wrong with running as root as long as you know what you're doing. Blanket statements about how no one should ever run as root are just wrong. There are people who know what they're doing.

[joe.pelayo]

Nothing wrong with running as root as long as you know what they are doing. Blanket statements about how no one should ever run as root are just wrong. There are people who know what they're doing.
Agreed, but considering that the vast majority of people does not know what they are doing, it is recommended to not run as root. Besides, if you are so extremely 'lucky' to find a virus for Linux, it won't hurt you running as non-root.

"When the pupil is ready, the master appears" and considering I don't consider myself ready I don't run as root. (When unavoidable I use su - only).

[stanjam]

Agreed, but considering that the vast majority of people does not know what they are doing, it is recommended to not run as root. Besides, if you are so extremely 'lucky' to find a virus for Linux, it won't hurt you running as non-root.

"When the pupil is ready, the master appears" and considering I don't consider myself ready I don't run as root. (When unavoidable I use su - only).

A wise idea. I do not recommend doing as I do, as it definately increases the chances of something going bad. However the Linux systems I do do this on are largely experimental and are not expected to have long shelf lives. For a system that you want to have up and running for a long time, don't set yourself up to get into root automatically like that! It's ok to put yourself into the sudoers file, or set up the wheel group for root access, but require a password. It makes the chance of an automated rogue program/virus/malware much less likely to occur.

[Flyboy917]

Many of you old heads know that Stan Finley left Fedora for Ubunto partly because of 3rd party repos being out of sync.
As a MythTV user, I have no choice but to use ATRPMS, Which while it is better than it used to be, is still sometimes not in sync with Fedora base repos.
Is anyone interested in comparing a MythTV Fedora system vs a Fiesty Fawn Ubuntu MythTV setup?
I do have an extra "box" that just needs a hard drive.

[srs]

I just tried Ubuntu FF and it is polished and everything, but WTF was Ubuntu thinking when then they decided to link sh to dash!!! It breaks a lot of scripts, including the installation of Intel Fortran. Is it ok to link sh to bash, or does this break a lot of Ubuntu things? Oh, f*** it, I think I just dump Ubuntu :o)

[Stian1979]

I started to concider changing to Ubuntu.
I really love Fedora, but it look like the fedora's own ATI drivers and librarys don't work well on my laptop.
Ubuntu use ATI's own native drivers do they not?

Would it be bether and less truble to build ATI's own librarys on Fedora?

[joe.pelayo]

I started to concider changing to Ubuntu.
I really love Fedora, but it look like the fedora's own ATI drivers and librarys don't work well on my laptop.
Ubuntu use ATI's own native drivers do they not?

Would it be bether and less truble to build ATI's own librarys on Fedora?
Considering Ubuntu 7.04 works completely 'out of the box' and Beryl runs like a charm I am also tempted to change to it. However, I don't know, the only problem I have with Fedora is that alsa does not work and, that is not so important. Besides I almost know the way Fedora works and using Ubuntu (although it works) is like using a black box (and Ubuntu forums does not have people as nice & smart as Fedora does).

I'll wait until Fedora 7 official is released, and if it does not work well for me I'll try PCLOS; Ubuntu will remain for the moment my back door Linux distribution.

Joe.

[Stian1979]

Considering Ubuntu 7.04 works completely 'out of the box' and Beryl runs like a charm I am also tempted to change to it.

I would also like to use beryl without having to use all kind of triks.
I read trough the how to here and after my understanding there where some compromises that made me lose interest in it.
I also can not load google earth and I gues it's the ATI drivers fault.

Is there anny way I can vipe out the Fedora openGL and ATI drivers and install the native ones without too mutch truble I will try that befour going to Ubuntu.

[joe.pelayo]

I would also like to use beryl without having to use all kind of triks.
I read trough the how to here and after my understanding there where some compromises that made me lose interest in it.
I also can not load google earth and I gues it's the ATI drivers fault.

Is there anny way I can vipe out the Fedora openGL and ATI drivers and install the native ones without too mutch truble I will try that befour going to Ubuntu.
Strangely enough for me Ubuntu's 'implementation' of Beryl & ATI drivers works better than Fedora's (at least in my hardware and with some workarounds), however that is not enough to convert me.

Joe.