One Laptop per Child

[Dies]

If you haven't heard about it, it's a program to develop a $100 laptop for children in third world countries. The designs look very promising and unique, it also has a new interface "Sugar" that's supposed to be completely different than current Operating Systems.
Anyways the coolest part ( I didn't know ) is that it's fedora based and you can download it and try it out:

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OS_images

I'm downloading it to try on VMWare since I don't have a USB stick handy.
I expect it to run slow, so if anyone has a USB stick 512M or larger to play with I'd be interested to know how well it runs.

[JN4OldSchool]

Oh, how cool Dies! Thanks for that link. I have just read in Linux pro that olpc was gonna be a stripped fedora base. Did you hear how India is trying to reject the program? They are in MS's hip pocket anyway...Yeah, I will try booting this up in vmware myself...

[Finalzone]

For people who like to see a preview:
http://www.fedoraforum.org/gallery/search.php?do=searchresults&searchid=2740

Latest build has a larger pointer. The resolution issues on some activities (equivalent of application) on old build has been fixed. Also read http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OS_images_for_emulation for more details.

[Wayne]

Perhaps they should use the money to feed them, get them a clean water supply and educate them before wasting it on a computer they probably do not even know how to use.

Wayne

[Dies]

Perhaps they should use the money to feed them, get them a clean water supply and educate them before wasting it on a computer they probably do not even know how to use.

Wayne

I agree that more can be done for those people, but this project isn't really targeted at those kids that are starving, it's targeted more at the kids that already have the basics but not enough for luxuries. And I think it's a good idea and also a way to get the next gen hooked on something other than MS products. Aside from the fact that I'd sooner criticize governments that would rather spend millions on weapons than feed a few more people. At least this project will probably benefit everyone in the future.

On another note, I would love to see something like a "Sugar Session" on the next FC where maybe you could select it from Grub and have a stripped down session with only your favorite apps that loads lightning quick, I think that would rock. Could be the start of a nice Media Center too if you added a couple things.

Edit - Nice job with those screenshots Finalzone. I should've thought of that.

[Wayne]

I just feel a properly funded and equipped school environment would be more beneficial to the kids than a stripped down wind-up toy. Do they really need to have a computer like that at home? What good is going to be for them in the future when they face a real computer interface. They'll learn more from having real PCs at school with properly trained teachers. That's where the money should go. I just had a flashback to Microsoft Bob :eek:

Wayne

[JN4OldSchool]

I agree with what you are saying Wayne, but I must respectfuly disagree with your stand on this too. Not all 3rd world countries are living in mud puddles drinking out of the cess pool. Look at Malyasia, Indonesia, areas around your neck of the woods. Beautiful places and certainly not poor per say. These people are one generation from headhunting in the jungles. They need these computers. BTW, I think the wind up idea is defunk, last I heard they were to be battery powered and actually around $150 each due only to super-mass production. They are hardly toys and will make great personal computers for the classroom and home. Though hardly an expert I think it's a great idea and I grab whatever bits and pieces of news I can.

[Dies]

Well I think you're missing the target audience here. And also the big picture, I look at it and think great, mass production of something like this will only lead to the tech used getting better and better, cheaper and cheaper, whose to say that the next gen of the OLPC can't be $150, targeted at teens instead of children and include a full distro and larger storage. Also, I would argue that it's much better than the school only being able to afford 1 "real PC" for every 8 or 10 students, they can take this home network with each other, have fun with it.

But whatever, these debates have gone on enough everywhere that this project has ever been discussed and both sides always raise good points. So let's just agree to disagree.

[mwette]

CNN article is here (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/01/02/hundred.dollarlaptop.ap/index.html)

[Finalzone]

What good is going to be for them in the future when they face a real computer interface. They'll learn more from having real PCs at school with properly trained teachers. That's where the money should go. I just had a flashback to Microsoft Bob :eek:

Consider these issues (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3543839.stm) when it comes to real PCs. Let's face it, most schools in developing countries cannot afford to get Home PC and laptops because components like disk drive, fans, are prone to fail in harsh environment bringing more cost to maintain them.

XO (actual name of OLPC) was designed to be rugged, power efficient estimated to be 1/10th of normal laptop (about 2 to 5 watts), easily rechargeable from a kid to a truck battery or even a solar panel, more on XO Hardware Specification (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Hardware_specification)

[Wayne]

To me it just seems like a gimmick, pretending to fix something that doesn't need fixing rather than teaching them skills that they will need in the future fit for the environment they live in. Do these kids REALLY need computers at home? OK. My eldest does because a lot of his assignments are done on the school's PCs and he can log-in at home, download them, edit them and upload them again but these kids probably don't have computers at school and most of them would probably spend most of their adult life not needing one. I know I don't need one, it's just a hobby, I can get through my day-to-day life with just my cell-phone and I don't really need that. My youngest's school uses eMacs but he never touches the PC on his desk except to play a game but that is rare, most of the time it's switched off. If a kid in a developed country doesn't need to use a PC I sure as hell bet a kid in an under-developed country doesn't either.

Wayne

[Finalzone]

To me it just seems like a gimmick, pretending to fix something that doesn't need fixing rather than teaching them skills that they will need in the future fit for the environment they live in.

It is not about fixing, it is about providing a tool to learn and share their knowledges. Given the creativity of kids, they will find a way to effectively use XO. Think XO as an Ebook.

My eldest does because a lot of his assignments are done on the school's PCs and he can log-in at home, download them, edit them and upload them again but these kids probably don't have computers at school and most of them would probably spend most of their adult life not needing one.

I can see a frown of some people from these developing countries. I am afraid the statement is about ignorance. You will be really surprised how kids there can do with just a small device.

[Wayne]

Kids share their knowledge through play and social interaction. Give them all a PC and shut them up in their rooms so they can talk to their friends over a network rather than actually go out and meet each other face-to-face. Bah! Humbug! Look at what games machines have done for our kids. They spend hours shooting up monsters rather than going out and making go-carts and falling from trees, scraping their knees and getting dirty like my generation. Soon social skills will be a thing of the past. Give the kids a hammer and a screwdriver, some planks of wood and get them really being creative.

Sorry, it doesn't wash here. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on.

Cheers

Wayne

[Finalzone]

OLPC Sugar UI: Not Linux, Not Windows, Not Apple (http://www.olpcnews.com/software/operating_system/olpc_sugar_ui_linux.html).
Including is a picture with XO and 12" Apple PowerBook.

[Dies]

Kids share their knowledge through play and social interaction. Give them all a PC and shut them up in their rooms so they can talk to their friends over a network rather than actually go out and meet each other face-to-face. Bah! Humbug! Look at what games machines have done for our kids. They spend hours shooting up monsters rather than going out and making go-carts and falling from trees, scraping their knees and getting dirty like my generation. Soon social skills will be a thing of the past. Give the kids a hammer and a screwdriver, some planks of wood and get them really being creative.

Sorry, it doesn't wash here. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on.

Cheers

Wayne

I agree with what you just said 100% and probably a lot of people here do too, you're not alone, but c'mon you know these things aren't going to change, it's not going back to the way it was unless something truly horrible happens. Things change and not always for the better, not much to be done about that. Some even call it progress.


BUT I still think this is a cool project and good for Open Source. :p

[lazlow]

If I remember correctly they intend to stop using textbooks. Over the "life" of the machine it will be far cheaper than buying all the textbooks. The mesh style networking also allows for a network without any (minmal) infrastructure. I also suspect that part of the incentive is political. After the child goes to bed the parents will have access to the machine (assuming web access).

Lazlow

[Wayne]

I agree with what you just said 100% and probably a lot of people here do too, you're not alone, but c'mon you know these things aren't going to change, it's not going back to the way it was unless something truly horrible happens. Things change and not always for the better, not much to be done about that. Some even call it progress.


BUT I still think this is a cool project and good for Open Source. :p

I suppose it's true that my son calls me and old fart :D But it seems to me that people think technology is the universal panacea for everything, but we all know that is really beer :D

http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/london/slides/P1040219.html

Cheers

Wayne

[snoze]

well, now you can get a very good laptop in 200-300$ range. So i think that $100 initiative is not far from reality. Though I am from india and $100 is a big money specially if you are iving in poor neighborhood. Still this $100 inititative is not costly, only the part eating most of $100 is cpu cost. We can get OS free nowdays, but how about cpu?

[Wayne]

An updated story here:

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38847

Download ISO:

http://olpc.download.redhat.com/olpc/streams/sdk/build1/livecd/

Wayne (Still not convinced but who cares!)

[Dies]

Wayne (Still not convinced but who cares!)

The fact that you felt the need to point that out tells me that you're getting there. :p

But seriously, I think this would be the perfect base for a Media Center type distro, too bad I'm going to have to go back to work soon, but maybe we could get some people to work on it.

Shouldn't be too bad, just take and pile on a bunch of "dirty" codecs and drivers maybe steal some auto-detection scripts from somewhere, throw in a little lirc and some Myth for good measure

bam!.. the perfect lightweight Linux media center.

Just need to find a host outside the U.S. :D

[Wayne]

Err, no, not getting there, just thought I'd pass on the info.

Rather than educate these kids they should do what we had to do, left school at 6, went to work down the mines for 18 hours a day, lived in a shoebox in middle of the road, when dad came home he used to beat us till we were dead, then mum smacked us round the ears, had one pair of shoes between the 12 of us and took it in turns to wear them, then as a Sunday treat mum would put them in the stew pot so we would have some meat flavour with some rotten cabbage she found in the market trash bins. Those were the days!

Wayne

[Dies]

L M A O !!

[Wayne]

L M A O !!

A rather poor imitation of Monty Python's "The Four Yorkshiremen" Each trying to outdo each other on how tough life was for them as kids.

Wayne

[Dan]

Hmmm.


I'll stand with you on this one, Wayne.

They're fun, they're handy, they're useful, and in today's developed countries, they're almost indispensable. But in the real world of just trying to secure food, water, shelter and learn basic, real-world survival skills, they're about as useful as a rubber axe!

In this I will also stand with no less a learned man than Isaac Asimov. Printed books do not require batteries. Nor do they need wound up. Nor are they dependant upon tiny, fragile wires, sheets of glass and heat/cold/dust/moisture/shock/static sensitive electronic parts.

Kids will be kids. They are boisterous by nature. And unless you work very hard to train it out of them, they will do silly things like climb trees, wrestle, fall down and throw each other into ponds and creeks.

Drop a paperback book out of your pack from the top of a tree ... you can climb down, pick it up, dust it off, and go on your merry way to school. Drop your laptop from barely tabletop high, and kiss your lessons goodbye.


Dan

<..:eek:..>

[Wayne]

I couldn't imagine taking lessons on a machine. After a short time my eyes would be popping out of their sockets. There's nothing like a well laid out textbook with pages you can thumb, colour pictures and text to excite and tease young minds. Occasionally I use the web to look up stuff on beer (and other things) but there's no beating Michael Jackson's BEER book. It and my Home Brewing book are right by my desk. OK I admit the computer does have its uses, if I need a dictionary, it's right there for me in the menu and GJiten saves me from having to search out a Japanese/English dictionary when I need one. I can remember all the horror stories that online news sites would replace the newspaper! Pull the other one!

Wayne

[Dies]

I can remember all the horror stories that online news sites would replace the newspaper!

Wayne

You act as if it's over and it never happened, but the truth is it's inevitable.
Newspapers aren't doing as well these days, sure the large ones still make a killing and probably will for most of our lives but have no doubt that as technology gets cheaper and cheaper and more advanced in large part due to projects like OLPC things will change drastically. It's not if, just when.

[JN4OldSchool]

guys, I am old school too but you are both wrong on this one. Dan, even though I am sure younger kids will get a piece of this eventually I think they will be aiming towards an older crowd at first anyway. High school, maybe Jr high age. And even though we are talking "third world" I dont think it is aimed at the powerless grass hut set most people think of. More like the Sumatra type third world. Cities in South America. I am all for hard copy books and magazines myself but let me tell you, having kids currently in school the world is changing fast. I agree that food, sanitation, agriculture, etc all come first. But computer technology is very important for the future also. At least enough knowledge to know what the internet is, to be able to use a word processor, to be comfortable with a laptop. I think it is a great program.

[Wayne]

Originally computers were made to make our lives easier. I think it's gone way beyond that now, they're taking over our lives! We spend too much time sitting in front of the screen in forums like this, wading through the net and for many, playing games, when we should be outside doing stuff. Many's the time I've been sitting here and completely lost track of time. What we're breeding is a new generation of kids who will rely on the computer so much that they will forget how to explore the REAL world. I shouldn't be sitting here, I should be out there now, hunting girls and swigging beer! I'm beginning to think it's time to pull the plug.....

Wayne

[Dan]

Hmmm

May I recommend ...

The Plug In Drug
http://www.mariewinn.com/plugin.htm

Silicon Snake Oil.
http://www.amazon.com/Silicon-Snake-Oil-Thoughts-Information/dp/0385419945?tag=dogpile-20


Dan

[Wayne]

They look interesting, Dan. Perhaps my point of view is because I spent a lot of my childhood without a TV! My father didn't like them and the only reason we eventually got one (black and white) was because a friend of his bought a new colour TV and passed it on to us. Actually, I think we spent more time fixing the darn thing than watching it! a valve (vacuum tube) would often blow and we'd have to locate it and replace it from a box of spares we kept under the 'goggle box' My old man was an engineer and had tons of electrical components around the place.

Wayne

[Dan]

I suspect that might be part of it. We struggled for 1 channel. So it didn't get watched much. Mostly we listened to the radio.

[JN4OldSchool]

Originally computers were made to make our lives easier. I think it's gone way beyond that now, they're taking over our lives! We spend too much time sitting in front of the screen in forums like this, wading through the net and for many, playing games, when we should be outside doing stuff. Many's the time I've been sitting here and completely lost track of time. What we're breeding is a new generation of kids who will rely on the computer so much that they will forget how to explore the REAL world. I shouldn't be sitting here, I should be out there now, hunting girls and swigging beer! I'm beginning to think it's time to pull the plug.....

Wayne

agreed and it will only get worse. Just think when VR (virtual reality) becomes a reality! Talk about never moving from the computer. Heck, even now look at the gadgets. Cell phones, GPS, ipods...I think it is all crap. I own a walkman! I have a 79 Ford F250 work truck, a 70 VW bug and a 91 Harley Sporster. None even have a radio in them! I dont want or need any of that crap. I hate me $50 cell phone that is JUST a phone. Wish I could throw the damn thing in a lake. Yeah, I sit in front of a computer all day now. Told myself I would never do that, I have always been blue collar construction on my feet 50 hour weeks. I hate being inside. But I am just too old to keep up in the field now. And I cant just retire, though I should. When I was a kid we didnt have anything to keep us indorrs. Even tv was just the big 3 channels on an outside antenna. So fuzzy it was hardly watchable. I knew every tree within a 10 mile radius. We were hunting and fishing by age 5. I lived on the lakes. Those days are gone now. Florida is overrun with yankees, hunted and fished out. Parking lots and shopping malls and gated communities now stand where once there were orange groves and woodland. I get real bitter sometimes when I think about it and dream of retiring to Montana where I dont have anyone breathing down my neck. So yeah Wayne, I do see your side. Believe me brother, I do.

[Wayne]

I suspect that might be part of it. We struggled for 1 channel. So it didn't get watched much. Mostly we listened to the radio.

Yeah, some these young un's don't know what they've missed. They've been brought up on multi channel TVs, satellite TV, VCRs, DVDs, PlayStations and whatnot! For us, excitement on a rainy day was a game of Monopoly :D

Slowly but steadily becoming an old fart.... :D

Wayne

[Dan]

Happens to the best of us. All you have to do is survive and it just happens!

And, JN4, I guess it's a good idea to bring technology to places it wasn't before, but I wonder sometimes if we aren't killing our kids with it.

I edited my first post pretty hard before I hit the "submit" key. Let me edit in some of that, because I think it's still valid.

Kids are kids. And they should be allowed to be so. They are boisterous by nature. I do not want them "tamed."

I do not want them isolated by a technology -- while not designed to enslave their minds to an information culture which lives in abject denial of 90% of the world around them -- but which may well do it anyway!

I fear that someday they may indeed be neutered. Neutered by a technological tool of a culture of spineless debutants that recoil in revulsion of someone who will openly disagree, or dare to shout, run, compete, win, explore, invent, get hurt, heal, blow things up, break things, build things, take outrageous risks with gusto, take things apart, grow things, care for things, kill things ... and in the process, learn the real meaning of life and death -- full of disappointment and elation -- in a world where there are no undos, re-boots and do-overs! A world in which success has hidden consequences, and failure has hidden value. And by living both, they learn and grow into what they can be.

I think there is another thread that illustrates this too.

I'll post it right here when I find it.

http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=138326

D.

[Wayne]

What I see around me is kids coming home from school and immediately hitting the PlayStation instead of going out and building their social skills. Most mothers are too stressed to stop them and willingly let them indulge if it means they can get time away from the kids and family life. My kids are pretty good, if I tell them to turn it off they will, however slightly unwillingly :)

Everywhere I see the Japanese 'Otaku' (nerds) They have zero social skills, no real friends and only 'talk' to others like them, they read stupid comic books (I gave up reading comics when I started secondary school!) They play online games and buy dolls of their favourite 'TV idol' because they lack the ability to find a real girlfriend. So, we're going to create people like that in developing nations too, drag them down to our so-called 'modern developed' levels? I pity those poor kids!

Wayne

[Wayne]

Right now I'm kind of worried about my visa status so I'm planning for the worst case scenario of returning to the UK. I was born and dragged up in London, as you can imagine, a bustling, noisy, dirty (but cosmopolitan) city. The chances of me finding work at 50 are slim. So, I was thinking that if I were going to be broke I might as well be broke somewhere nice and I'm thinking of moving to the South West of England (Devon/Cornwall) I might be able to pick up some casual work, but will have fresh air, beautiful country and lovely unspoilt rural pubs to enjoy :) I doubt that I'll ever have need for a PC but maybe a cell-phone to keep in touch with family.

Nice dream, eh?

To be honest, my cell-phone is dead, they cut me off because I didn't pay the bill. It's so darn expensive for the one or two calls I make a month! I should change my price plan to a more reasonable one! Funny though, I hardly miss it!

Wayne

[Dan]

... "The day I heard Casey's unit was going to Iraq, I broke a personal oath I made the day I retired, and bought another cell phone, just so Casey and a couple of other cadets could keep in touch. I thought long and hard about that though, because Casey still likes to tell knock-knock jokes." I know what you mean!

[Schelling]

This tread is interesting, and I agree with Wayne and JN4, although in my case is different, because I am 29 years old, and I grow up with a TV attach to my eyes, I couldn't even imagine a world without TV.

When I was 18 I discovered the world of books and that was a revelation, and I ended studying philosophy at college. I even complaint to my mom why did she let me watch so much TV when I was little. Because, she said, that was the best way to keep me still :(

I am here, that means I have a thing for computers. But I hate the pedestal in which we put technology, I hate to feel dependant of machines (I don't drive and don't have a cellphone), and I usually stare at a pencil and think that in that little thing is were creation and creativity starts. I am a writer, and I write in my computer, but I always print what I write and make corrections with my fountain pen (which I love, and now is almost exciting see my own handwriting :) ); if I go out I carried bunch of notebooks and books, even though my computer is a laptop.

So anyways, I tend to get carry away with these themes (my thesis at college was about nature/technology, reason/instinct, freedom/necessity, etc). Just my humble opinion :)

Raúl

[Wayne]

The last time I used a pen was to sign my name on the bottom of a piece of paper that came out of a printer :) The only time I write now is with a marker in class when I'm teaching!

Wayne

[Coolerthanyou]

The extremes are the bad ones. Being phobic of it is just as bad as doing nothing but computers. You can't avoid technology so might as well learn to live with it and even get the most of it for your life. And as far as the chasing girls thing. Would it really be a bad thing if it slowed down? It's not stopping anyways, in fact more and more people are meeting online everyday. And it's just as stupid as it's always been, and getting worse regardless of technology. But that's another story. And who says they can't sit at the PC then go out and get s*** faced. Another lovely pastime.

[John the train]

Looking through the thread it seems to me that the issue isn't technology per se, but whether we use it or it uses us. A computer is a valuable research tool, and a lot of people have had their interest in photography re-kindled by digital imaging and the net, but the down-side, as we old fogies seem to agree, is kids getting hooked on cyber-pap, spending all their money on downloading tunes I wouldn't have if they came free with the cereal, or getting lost in a virtual world. I read somewhere that one of the multi-player game environments has enough ' inhabitants ' to qualify for a UN seat if it was in the real world!

[Wayne]

I've had enough of "laptops for kids" now it's time for "Lapdances for old fogies" :)

Wayne

[Dan]

Yeah! Now yer talkin'!

Bring it on!


<..:p..>

[Jolly-Swagman]

I too must agree with 98% of this topic and yes computers have made our every day lives simpler, as for the kids I think a little too simple as allot of the it has made them lazy, and illiterate to boot as they don't know how to spell so one click on the spell check and hey presto its done for them, but some still get it wrong as they don't know which word to pick in the spell check lists.
And nowadays you very rarely see kids out playing like we did back in our days, as Wayne stated give them hammer and wood some screws and let them be creative, as for mobiles its a wonder the kids still have thunbs left with all the texting the do, also this is where there spellig bad habits come from too with the slang type of text used.

Hey just another old fart too I guess. But one that never stops learning.

Jolly Swagman

[Coolerthanyou]

The kids are just reflections of their elders if you ask me. And that whole "do as I say not as I do" thing is worth just about diddly.

[Dan]

That's a damn good point, Cooler!

*Snort!*
*Sucks in table-muscle, sticks out chest, and hooks thumbs in suspenders.*

However, even though I like to say, "It's not the years ... it's the miles," when you start working on the fingers of the second handful of decades, it's considered an earned thing to slow down a little. And even at that, I'll challenge damn near any TV mind-numbed keyboard-cowboy teenager to keep up with this old fart when he's got work to do!

*Wheeze!*
*Face turning red with effort of trying to keep belly from covering belt buckle.*

Although ... I readily admit I'd be hospitalized by this time tomorrow if I tried to repeat most of the stunts I pulled in my youth.

*Gasp!*
*Lets table-muscle flop back out, and chest deflates like a punctured balloon. Then sits back down in front of computer ... completely winded!*

Whew!

Dan

<..:p..>

[Coolerthanyou]

Well those teens will be old someday if they make it there, and the way things are going, by that time they might be lucky if they can manage living how seniors can live today...

[titotech]

Dear All friends:

i am an I.T assistant in UNHCR organization projec called IRD " international relief and development. and we have 240 OLPX XO-1 laptops for school kids, but they cant deal with it cause its not friendly user interface like windows, so i have a task for installing fedora 11 on XO laptops, am not good that much in linux environment. so i tried so hard with ( fs.zip and X.img ) booting methods. but its always installing Suger again. plz i need a very easy way to slove that.. i didnt sleep will for a week :(

Regards