Gaming on linux, worth the trouble?

[BabySeal]

I use fedora on my server and laptop but i still have XP on my gaming machine since i do from time to time enjoy a bit of action! But XP isnt fun like linux, tweaking is fairly limited, and well windows is just, boring lol... So here are my questions!

how do games run on your linux machine compared to XP (performance wise)?
Are there any annoyances are common bugs?
How do you feel about gaming with an ATI x700 on linux?

Im running a GB of ddr400 and an ati x700 with a 3200+ athlon if anyone is curious.... So what do you guys think, should i give linux gaming a try??? I play the following games a lot:
Master of Orion 2
Mechwarrior 4
MechCommander
StarSiege tribes 2
Starwars Battle front 2
The battlefield series
Freespace 1 and 2
Civilzation 3/4

Thanks! andy

[pparks1]

Personally, for gaming, keep a Windows box around. At least a dual boot. I don't think you will find the gaming acceptable on Linux....or worth the effort to get it installed using tools like Cedega and Wine.

[iamroot]

Firstly, 99% of games will not work natively on GNU/Linux. Other than the few native games such as UT Doom3 and Quake4, you will have to use software such as Cedega or WINE to sort-of "emulate" a Windows environment. Not many games work well using these methods.

It's still best to stick to Windows for gaming.

[rappermas]

Linux itself is much higher performance if a game is written natively for it. It has much better memory management and raw power overall, despite what others may say. The sad this is, most games are written for windows because people like to click click click finish more than they like to type rpm -iv. But that's the way it is. Linux games are great and there are some amazing ones on the way, like Surge. For now, however, Windows just has more games for it than Linux does.

[bob]

To me, gaming consoles are the way to go for gaming. I refuse to spend the big bucks to make my computer into a gaming console, especially with my performance in the games. A wonderful alternative is when my neighbors and family buy the gaming consoles, invite me over and provide the beer. I am a very gracious loser if you supply the brew! :D

[jimwalt]

I've tried several hours to get certain games to play on Linux. It can be done (with a lot of tweaking with Wine, kernels and modules), but the end result it usually not worth the while. Basically, I came to this conclusion:

Dual Boot System-- WINXP for gaming, Linux for everything else :D

[mcds99]

I use a laptop with Linux and I have a gaming machine.

I just spent about $1600 on a new gaming rig this past spring, I had hopes of running
FC6 and CoD2 but that will not happen as CoD2 doesn't work with Wine and Cedega, I
have googled and found no joy for CoD2 and Linux of any distro. I'll dual boot the machine soon to do some CoD2 server testing (why they don't have a client I don't know).

I'm a member of a CoD2 clan and would love to have the whole clan use Linux. It's to
bad the folks who write the software are not able to come to terms with using tools that
are much better then the MonopolySoft tools.

I'm sure MonopolySoft has some very nice spiffs for these companies :eek: when they visit.
"Hey you'd like to have windows free right?!!!" "how about some mice and keyboards!"
"what's that, free computers? we don't build computers."
"why not?" Well then we would have to support our OS's."

"Oops, I didn't say that out loud did I". :eek: :eek: :eek:

[glussier]

Microsoft doesn't have to give nothing to companies for them to write games for the windows platform.

92% of users are on windows, out of that 92% there are probably 60% which are not gamers, so 36% of that 92% are gamers of which there are only 25% for your type of games, so you are left with 6% of which 50% are using bootleg copies so your real market is 3% of windows users buying your games, which might still be a viable market Apply the same reasoning to linux, which has roughly 3% market share and you are left with almost nothing. So who do you think companies should write games for?

As for the best gaming platform, if you are an ati user you get the best performance out of windows, for nvidia, native games usually play a little better under linux, but not because linux is better, it's because nvidia as better opengl drivers under linux than under windows.

[JohnBailey]

Just out of curiosity, where do you get your statistics? I've heard anything from 85% to 95% of users are using Windows, but then I have heard also that Apple make up another 12-25%, and widely differing figures from 3-20% for Linux. Given that people who buy both Mac and Windows pre installed on their computers can if they wish, install Linux, and that many dual or even triple boot with the above software, and that there is no way of counting the number of re purposed or home built systems, so sales of any OS are wildly inaccurate as far as market share is concerned. I seriously doubt anybody actually knows the actual penetration of Linux.

Even with download statistics from each distro, there can't be anything resembling accuracy. With FC6 I attempted 4 times to download before I got a working copy. And then there is the question of my being counted as a new user or an upgrader from FC5, or did I come from a different distro of Linux? Assuming that anybody was keeping count, and that they were able to figure bit torrent downloads into the total.

Even if local demographics or email survey data is used, then that is only relevant for the given location. America is reputed to have quite a small Linux user base, but it is much more popular in Germany.

Quite a quandary.. I very much doubt that there are any reliable accurate figures for the actual market share of any of the competing systems.

But to get back on topic..

On the subject of games for Linux, I'm not so sure there are as many obstacles as you think. True, Linux doesn't have the raw numbers of users that Windows does, but how many sales does a company need to make it a viable exercise?
I'm not suggesting that a company should develop a Linux only game, so the majority of the money is already spent on marketing, development and design for the Windows and console versions. I'm talking about a port of the existing game to get a bit of extra cash, or to build up a market that doesn't already exist.

I would imagine that Nvidia and ATI would be quite interested in selling more powerful video cards to the Linux users too, as they already see a big enough market to be worth supporting. And gamers upgrade their gear much faster than the average person who just does a bit of word processing and web surfing.

NWN1 and the ID games like Doom etc are proof that the technical side is not the obstacle. We are in the early stages of Linux still, so things like standardization and broader acceptance from the mainstream developers will be patchy. In time though, I think they will see there is an untapped market in Linux.

[glussier]

Just out of curiosity, where do you get your statistics? I've heard anything from 85% to 95% of users are using Windows, but then I have heard also that Apple make up another 12-25%, and widely differing figures from 3-20% for Linux. Given that people who buy both Mac and Windows pre installed on their computers can if they wish, install Linux, and that many dual or even triple boot with the above software, and that there is no way of counting the number of re purposed or home built systems, so sales of any OS are wildly inaccurate as far as market share is concerned. I seriously doubt anybody actually knows the actual penetration of Linux.


I take my stats from Google finance when I check the quotes on intc (intel) amd, Microsoft and Apple. Apple is the 3rd or 4th biggest manufacturer of laptop and have about 15% of the laptop market, but if you include all of the laptops/desktops and workstations, Apple has less than 4% of the market. Linux has roughly about the same as Apple. Microsoft has more than 90% of the global market in these categories.

Most people buy computers from large oem manufacturers, and for those winxp in already included in the price (~$45.00US). There are a lot of people trying linux, but most of them quit after a few days or weeks. Probably the people who bashes the most, in linux forums, against the vole (Microsoft) are linux newbies who are the most hardcore windows users.

I never liked win9x/winme, but I've been using Slackware since 1997, Redhat/Fedora since 1998, Win2k since 1999, winxp since 2001 and I always have been happy with these 4 o/s.

[giulix]

To me, gaming consoles are the way to go for gaming.

Been thinking about it.... problem is: can you plug a keyboard into a console (yes, it's a serious question) ?

[JohnBailey]

I take my stats from Google finance when I check the quotes on intc (intel) amd, Microsoft and Apple. Apple is the 3rd or 4th biggest manufacturer of laptop and have about 15% of the laptop market, but if you include all of the laptops/desktops and workstations, Apple has less than 4% of the market. Linux has roughly about the same as Apple. Microsoft has more than 90% of the global market in these categories.

Based on sales or shipping figures I assume. My point is that the life cycle of these computers is not tracked. I would imagine the figures are broadly correct, but not the full picture. And it seems that there are quite a few companies and local government departments taking a serious look at the idea of switching. I doubt the "year of Linux" will be any time soon, if it ever comes, but the numbers are creeping up slowly.

Most people buy computers from large oem manufacturers, and for those winxp in already included in the price (~$45.00US). There are a lot of people trying linux, but most of them quit after a few days or weeks. Probably the people who bashes the most, in linux forums, against the vole (Microsoft) are linux newbies who are the most hardcore windows users.

True enough. For their first computer at least. I've sent dozens of friends to small scale custom builders over the years.

I can see your point about the newbies being the most ardent MS bashers. And I'll freely admit to being a newbie myself. Some of the dramatic declarations of Windows being so shaky and unusable by people who must have been using the worst hardware on the market or exaggerating to heroic proportions do make me smile. Same thing happens in the Mac vs PC arguments I have seen. One of my PCs is on 24/7 for months at a time with no problems, and it runs XP. No doubt a Linux box doing the same job would be just as effective.

I do wonder about the numbers who try Linux for a few days and then leave. I have been in that position several times, but I can see the potential, so I keep coming back and trying again. Each time I get a bit further with Linux, and the distros keep getting easier to use. At the moment, I'm having fun solving problems one at a time, so at least some others must be having the same experience. I've been using FC5 for about 3 months or so this time with no hardship, while the best I managed previously was about a week on a dual boot without internet access.

Personally I don't have anything against Windows. I still have it on 2 of my 3 PCs. It is a good OS providing you take sensible security precautions, and stability isn't really an issue if the hardware is up to the job <games being the possible exception>. Not so keen on the WGA stuff though, and the apparent arrogance of MS doesn't really appeal to me either.


I never liked win9x/winme, but I've been using Slackware since 1997, Redhat/Fedora since 1998, Win2k since 1999, winxp since 2001 and I always have been happy with these 4 o/s.

My pedigree goes from Dos, to Win3.x, 95, 98SE, and finally XP and Linux. Linux is definitely the most fun for me, but XP is more functional until I get up to speed.

[glussier]

My pedigree goes from Dos, to Win3.x, 95, 98SE, and finally XP and Linux. Linux is definitely the most fun for me, but XP is more functional until I get up to speed.


Lol, I didn't talk about mine. I started back in 1970 as an assembler programmer on IBM mainframes 360 and 370. I started using micro computer in 79 with the trs80 model 1 with trsdos/ldos and then their model 3, 16 and 6000 (trs80 xenix). At the same time I was using msdos on ibm pcs. I must have used all versions of msdos except for 4.0. It's been a long time but computers are still fun.

[JohnBailey]

A touch more than me then :) My first computer was a ZX81. One of the early home computers on sale in Ireland. It was marketed by Timex in the US. http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/computers/timex/ts1000.htm Back when computer magazines had listings to type in for games, and you had to wait for next month's issue for the errata. Didn't have much in the way of an operating system and a whopping great ram pack clipped to the back in such a way that if anybody sneezed the thing would crash. None of these new fangled sims and such.. I can remember whole articles on how to stop the dreaded Ram Pack Wobble. Even more rewarding when I got to the last line of a hex listing and someone walked into the room :mad: . It had a whole 16K though, and there was even a chess program that ran in 1K Happy days.. My first PC was a second hand IBM PC. the original one with the green MDA monitor and a keyboard that doubled as a lethal weapon. came in handy for a COBOL course I was on at the time.

John

[PsychoTrauma]

Been thinking about it.... problem is: can you plug a keyboard into a console (yes, it's a serious question) ?

I'm pretty sure xbox and xbox360 have keyboard support (not out of the box).

[giulix]

Good news, thanks! Can't play games without one...

[sargek]

Linux itself is much higher performance if a game is written natively for it. It has much better memory management and raw power overall, despite what others may say. The sad this is, most games are written for windows because people like to click click click finish more than they like to type rpm -iv. But that's the way it is. Linux games are great and there are some amazing ones on the way, like Surge. For now, however, Windows just has more games for it than Linux does.

I agree with your comments on performance. My Linux Neverwinter Nights install blows away the Windows version in terms of performance. I have recently dumped my last Windows install, and am now gaming totally on Linux using Cedega. Yes, not all of my games run as well, but I don't care. I am sick and tired of Microsoft and I'll sacrifice something to get free of them. :D

[leigh123linux]

My friend runs debian (linux) on his xbox .
A better use I think.

[Nostrafus]

Personally I feel that if people are to ever see past mass marketed materials, and brand names to find a great OS and great games yes we definately all need to do our part in abandoning Windows in favor of Linux games. At the moment, unfortunately, Linux seems to be an afterthought in the gaming industry. Very few publishers even consider Linux as a viable market for games because they perceive Linux as having no profitability.

However there is something that can be done. If enough heads are turned, and the gaming industry can be convinced that Linux users are willing to pay money for good product. Then Linux may not be something to consider after they've made their products available for other operating systems several months prior.

I myself have tried developing games to further this cause, however I lack the skills necessary to produce a game on my own. By the time I would release a game, the technology would be antequated in the gaming world. Every 4 years gaming technology seems to break into the next generation of games, and 1 man can't compete with corporations with hundreds of staff.

I'm currently thinking about getting together a gaming team where we could push to try to release a new game yearly. And not just something slapped together haphazardly. I mean a dedicated team who are willing to spend their free time to try and push Linux into the forefront. (Seriously, if enough people are willing to help, I will spend my time and hard earned money pulling this together... granted pay would be non-existant... but if you're willing to dedicate 2-4 days a week, 6 hours a day to helping move Linux forward or more :D ... I'd definately have you on)

[JN4OldSchool]

I agree with your comments on performance. My Linux Neverwinter Nights install blows away the Windows version in terms of performance. I have recently dumped my last Windows install, and am now gaming totally on Linux using Cedega. Yes, not all of my games run as well, but I don't care. I am sick and tired of Microsoft and I'll sacrifice something to get free of them. :D

My X-Plane 8.5 runs much better in Linux than on Windows also. Until recently I couldnt compare them with any accuracy as my dedicated Windows machine isnt very powerful, but upon installinf FC6 I also dual booted my big rig with XP. It is stripped down and...ah...doesnt go online for the obvious reasons :D and configured just for gameing with no anti-virus...to hog resources. Even with every trick i know the XP install sucks compared to the Linux even on the same computer. I wouldnt have believed it till I seen it for myself, but Linux pushes my hardware a lot harder and a lot more efficiently than Windows.

[Nostrafus]

Yes I can totally agree with that... I have a dual boot system since my sister is completely uncomfortable with linux, and while I don't have any games that are on both OS's the overhead and requirements for windows is far higher than needed.

The OS is built on top of an OS, built on top of an OS, built on another OS... It's basically just beefed up every time they release to handle newer code. I think with the release of Vista this will really be driven home that a builky, clunky OS just isn't needed for next gen gaming. I was looking at the release information for DirectX 10 because my brother is considering building a DX10 machine for next generation gaming... It said something along the lines of "DirectX 10 will only be available for Vista because XP couldn't handle the next gen graphics" I laughed...

All XP would need would be a patch to fully utilize the newer dual core processors, because that's the only new feature worthwhile in Vista, it's slower, had more services, and is going to be buggy as hell when it first releases. All in all I think it's laughable that they're trying to pull the wool over the eyes of gamers by saying they'll have to upgrade to Vista to be able to play DX10 games, they're just more concerned with launching their new OS, because fixing a broken OS isn't profitable...

At least that's my take...

[jmorhus]

Nostrafus, I get the same feeling when I see Vista specs or Microsoft's marketing points for it. Considering the amount of power required to run it, I would think there would be an option to select a 'slimmed down' profile for the OS at boot time - for playing heavy games, etc.

On another note, I am curious how many people will make the switch to Vista, and how quickly.

[sargek]

I wonder baout Vista also. They say there is supposed to be like 7 different versions of it. Talk about confusing the crap out of consumers. Never mind the insane hardware specs required...I can see people in Best Buy now, buying the wrong version and not being able to take it back because they opened it, or it won't run on their systems...they'll be really happy...:(

[Nostrafus]

Yep, I would imagine Microsoft would wait until they had a functional operating system, but they can't seem to wait more than 2-3 years before releasing a busted system... last one was what? 2 years ago...

Are they trying to tell us that technology has moved so fast since the release of XP it is now no longer capable of supporting software set to be released next year?

Personally I absolutely refuse to purchase another one of microsoft's operating systems, and if it came down to it I would rather abondon computing altogether in favor of the telegraph and abbacus if they were the last OS distributor.

[Coolerthanyou]

My short answer to this topic's question is: NO (not for Windows games through windows emulators that don't like to be called emulators).

Native games yes. IF you like the selection.

[Nostrafus]

Another thing I'd like to see is the eventual port of the Xbox360 able to run with a Linux core... think about the raw processing power for gaming on Linux.

If someone was able to build a Linux distribution to maximize the efficiency of the Xbox360... you'd get a (rough) total of 9.6 GHz! out of it (It's running a triple core each at 3.2 GHz).

Not only that but with 3 USB ports, you'd have enough for a Keyboard, Mouse, and USB External Hard Drive. All you'd need for a SWEET SWEET system would be a net connection (Ethernet port capable of supporting Cable modem already attached to the system) and an adapter for a HDTV.

That would pretty much make the perfect out of box gaming system that could equal or beat a PC, the only downside is it's not as upgradable. But $600 for a gaming rig that beats the pants of of most modern PC's is sweet.

I know I already have one (dodges incoming rocks) but I only got it because there's 3 games coming out for it that aren't being released for any other system. Eventually if I lose interest in it, or if someone can maintain it as both a PC and Console, I'd definately switch it over.

At the moment it's currently being worked on... right now there's a $50 reward to the first person who gets it done. Probably will increase once it gets more attention.

http://www.free60.org/

There's the link if anyone else is as excited as I am. Good times ahead (hopefully) it's probably going to take at least a year for a team to get it done because of M$'s greed, apparently they've put many, many countermeasures to prevent this from happening. I guess they were smart enough to forsee that someone may have in mind something other than a console when they looked at the beast that is the 360.

http://hardware.teamxbox.com/articles/xbox/1144/The-Xbox-360-System-Specifications/p1

There's the specs if you want to check those out too.

[sargek]

Yeah, the only thing running Windows now is my laptop, and that's for development purposes (I'm a Windows developer). I dumped my other Windows gaming install and feel the same way - I'll give up gaming before I buy anything else from Microsoft.

I thought about a console, but I just cannot get used to them. I have no idea how to operate the controllers, and the graphics suck compared to a PC. I have only gamed on a PC, and every time my kids have asked me to play something on a PS2, or XBox, I end up getting massively frustrated. Showing my age I guess...

[3006828]

the realy bull twang is that dx10 isnt giong to be released for XP

[Mojo]

No, but apparently a slightly cut don version will be released that allows DX10 games to be played..

[sargek]

Yup, the communist software giant at its finest. One more way to force (strong arm) consumers into buying their s^&t OS so they can play their favorite games...I hate them more and more every day.

[slimjimtowin]

Been thinking about it.... problem is: can you plug a keyboard into a console (yes, it's a serious question) ?

PS2's also have usb ports though only certain games support keyboard mostly online multiplayer games like Everquest that allow chat. could you imagine having a conversation using your PS2 controller although there are people out there that do it, I think its a pain in the ass.

[evilinux]

I play Quake 4 and thats about it, so for me its fine. Quake 4 runs better especially now that I have tweaked the heck out of this OS.
I am still looking for more tweaks, but I got this machine running now so it only uses 100.5 MB of memory right after boot, with system monitor running so I can see,.
After opening and closing several apps it is running at around 106 MB of ram used by the OS
games run faster and are more responsive. even though technically it shouldnt matter if you using 168 megs of ram for the OS when you have 2 gigs it does matter and I think maybe because the adresses in ram are closer somehow? Im not sure, but it matters.

[jbordelon]

To me, gaming consoles are the way to go for gaming. I refuse to spend the big bucks to make my computer into a gaming console, especially with my performance in the games. A wonderful alternative is when my neighbors and family buy the gaming consoles, invite me over and provide the beer. I am a very gracious loser if you supply the brew! :D

I'm with you. I try to keep my gaming and computing separate. Of course there are those who like to blur the lines and turn their console into a computer and their computer into a console. :-P

The only problem is when they release a game for PC and not for a console. Then I have to user Winderz :(

[hugbees]

Been thinking about it.... problem is: can you plug a keyboard into a console (yes, it's a serious question) ?

the xbox is nothing but a weird looking gaming computer

the controllers are in fact plain usb. and you can replace them with any kind of usb gear (need a little plug in between though..). this is really fun when your running linux on it like me =)

[ajamison]

all next gen consoles except maybe the Wii have some form of keyboard the PS2/PS3 has a USB port and most USB keyboards will work with it

[Thetargos]

The Wii also supports USB keyboards (and unless you're not familiar with the system, the Wii has two USB ports on the back)

[sailor]

With CrossOver Office I am able to play Half-Life, I have 2 of the loki games that are ported windows games...and with free installers from id I have successfully run DoomIII, Return to Castle Wolfenstein and I still play all the old Doom games (I, II, Plutonia and TNT: Evilution).

I love BZFlag a native linux online 3d tank battle...Scorched Earth 3d is cool...I play the old point and click games, the Dig, Beneath a Steel Sky, Flight of the Amazon Queen and the Indiana Jones. I use Scummv to play those.

There are hundreds of old DOS games that will work in dosbox...I am old too, so I still like those :p

[Thetargos]

I use DosBox to play my old DOS game selections too.

[strikeforce]

Has anyone tried using VMWare to play games. As in install windows xp and play the games that way.

If you guys have do you have a list of what games you tried and what works. I'm getting sick of switching to windows to play WoW properly. Yes I do need to play WoW in windows since I have a lot of addons that mostly can't be reduced since I'm a GL and the mods enable me to upload raid data etc...

[Thetargos]

As far as I know, VMWare uses a generic 2D video device, I'm not sure if you'll be able to use any accelerated 3D applications under a VMWare Windows session.

[strikeforce]

Yeah I figured as much. I just remember reading somewhere that VMWare is trying to achieve that so you can run 3D accelerated games and programs under it. I wasn't sure whether anyone had tried it thats all.